Buyer abuse?

[Nt4HumnUse]

Before I continue to escalte this issue I could use input regarding policy.

I believe I qualify for "buyer abuse".  Do I?

My buyer lives in China. I know because they emailed me asking for a better price on the auction because of the cost of freight to China ($44).

I only use the ebay international distribution center. My buyer set up with a 3rd party freight forwarding company in Oregon.

After delivery to this company (seller provided address) and no longer trackable my buyer claims the package didn't arrive.

I dispute the claim and escalate and win.

They appeal and revise it so now the claim is "grossly not as described".  

There is no way a medium flat rate box made it from Utah to China in 2 days. Let alone having been inspected by the buyer for accuracy.

Still further let alone the original claim of "no receipt".

I'm not the professional ebay seller, I just hate throwing money away. But I don't want a 100% positive record ruined by a scam. And this reecks of scam.

[Whac-A-Mole]

if they win the appeal,they will be asked to return the item to you with tracking from China/

It does not matter whether they have received the item or not.

By the time Paypal person or robot get to look into the case,enough time have past to warrant such claim.

[Nt4HumnUse]

Good call. Escalation will be key to get it in front of a pair of eyes.

Thanks for your help.

[sugarspostingID]

The eBay Money back guarantee only covers to the forwarding co. If You have a delivery confirmation saying it shipped and arrived there then You are covered. Even though eBay has the DC number You will have to put it in the box again...This is probably a scam artist. When If they do this, as far as I know, You can just push the button return for refund.

Try asking this question on the eBay community "Sellers board." This is a complex question and I am not sure of the answer. You might have to call eBay and ask for a Customer service person and get help there. Was it heavy? Like You say it surely hasn't arrived in China. I also think they can't file a SNAD IF the Item was sent to a freight forwarder. I would look up the address you sent it too on Google. take pictures of the pictures, address, and other details You can find out.  Have that ready for CS. I think the reason that MBG IS not good for things shipped to foreign countries is that the freight forwarder repackages everything. PLEASE CHECK with Sellers page on eBay though to make sure...Posters there are MUCH more experienced than I am...

I am surprised You are Selling to a foreign country...If You Are A Seller with few FB then You will get scammers coming out of the woodwork. Get experience from the USA first then Move on to Foreign countries. There are LOTS of things to learn about foreign countries before venturing into Selling to foreigners!!! Sugar

[Nt4HumnUse]

I did Google the address. That is how I found it was a freight forwarding company with an Asian name.

There was no name just an address with a "care of" 

The street view puts it in an industrial park. Good call on the screen shots, I didn't think of that.

It wasn't a heavy package. 4lb 14oz before packing material. 

Feed back is low, just a couple hundred. I didn't think much of it beings for work I shipped domestically/internationally for a lot of years.

I have canceled international shipping though. Too hard to defend myself.

Thank you for your help.

[Whac-A-Mole]

There are overseas buyers on EBay using freight forwarding company to save money.

if you win the dispute on Ebay,Ebay will send them a return shipping label from you to the OR shipping company,when they use it,the postage will be charged to your seller account.

But they cant use the label,since the item is in China.The return label is useless to them,they cant take it to the China post office.

BUt you dont have an Ebay dispute,you have a Paypal dispute which you won and they are appealing.

The worst scenario for you is that they will be asked to return the  item on their dime.

BTW,I looked into chargeback with Chinese cc issuer,some limit to 60 days,not 180 days.

[Whac-A-Mole]

whether it has arrived or heavy or light or they are lying is irrelevant.

I shipped an item to Australia,the buyer refused the package without opening it,then sat down and file item not as described.tracking shows it has arrived from USA to Australia.

Ebay approved the dispute and ask him to return the item.from Australia to USA.

Ebay Australia checked tracking which said delivered and refunded him.

I appeal saying it is not the right tracking  they should be using.

Ebay USA said I should call Ebay Australia,I refused so I appealed.

Ebay Australia overuled my appeal,saying this is final,no more appeal/

I called eBAY USA and got transferred 4 times,finally Philipines CS understands the issue,she said the package is still in Australia,so I should have my money back.

So she sent Ebay Australia a message and I won the appeal.

Is it over?I dont know,as there is this cc chargeback he could pursue,plus the package is somewhere,who knows where?

[Nt4HumnUse]

That sounds like a nightmare. Thanks for the info it gives me an idea of what's to come.

But sadly it does appear to be an easy scam to run and with high probability of getting away with it.

I hate to say it but this is confirming that it may be more worthwhile for me to take my crap and

donate it and take the tax write off. I'd at least be getting a fair price and less hassle lol. 

[sugarspostingID]

I forgot to mention...You can get a screen shot of the business Addy on Google to prove it is a freight forwarder. Google freight forwarders in the area it was sent to...On the right-hand side usually, there is a Business address and phone numbers...The chance of You winning this is that reason. Be sure and Stress that!  

The link for the ruler on eBay is

things not covered by MGB  Items not delivered, damaged during collection, or damaged during shipment when the buyer arranges pick-up or shipping of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight).Items shipped to another address after original delivery.

Tell the Buyer to file an INAD. (item not as described) when He files an INAD then put the pictures, the link in the response. You have 5 days business days (I think) Don't let it time out. You will lose the case then. Some buyers will NOT file a case as it puts them on eBay's radar.

After You send Your response to eBay call a CS. early in the AM to get an American CS. Let them read Your response, ask them to close it in Your favor. Have the link ready IF you have to read it to them. If they will NOT close it in Your favor DON'T let them escalate the case. Call again until You get Someone who will close it in Your favor. If You miss the time table You will GET a defect. Defects will be the death of Your Selling on eBay. You only get 2% of Your sales to get booted off of eBay. This is a pretty winnable case! I'd say 99%

Also, It is NOT hard NOR expensive to ship from China. They have the packet rate. That is why American Sellers have such a hard time with USA postage rates. Chinese and many foreigners get a VERy low discount...like they can ship for pennies.

He might be scamming You for a partial refund. Don't do it! Tell him to file an INAD. Be sure and report him/her Report Buyer If he/ she is reported it puts them on the radar for eBay to watch the Buyer.

Also, It is NOT hard NOR expensive to ship from China. They have the packet rate. That is why American Sellers have such a hard time with USA postage rates. Chinese and many foreigners get a VERY low discount...like they can ship for pennies.

It sounds like You do have enough experience to Sell to foreigners. I would only ship Only through DELCON through USPS. They have DC (delivery confirmation) I use a list put out By a private shipping company to Make a list of what countries I ONLY would ship to. If a Shipping Co. Will not ship there then it is not safe for You to ship there either! Be sure and go to Your Seller Settings and SET foreign companies to ship too. Also, put a disclaimer on Your Selling page and say something like. Buyer is responsible for All custom charges fees etc. Most foreign Buyers don't like the global shipping program. They add different excessive fees and repack Your items. Sellers who ship to foreign countries have more opportunities to Sell their items.

Good luck! Sorry,smileywink: this is so long...Just so many important details! Sugar

[sugarspostingID]

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@sumiko wrote:

whether it has arrived or heavy or light or they are lying is irrelevant.

I shipped an item to Australia,the buyer refused the package without opening it,then sat down and file item not as described.tracking shows it has arrived from USA to Australia.

Ebay approved the dispute and ask him to return the item.from Australia to USA.

Ebay Australia checked tracking which said delivered and refunded him.

I appeal saying it is not the right tracking  they should be using.

Ebay USA said I should call Ebay Australia,I refused so I appealed.

Ebay Australia overuled my appeal,saying this is final,no more appeal/

I called eBAY USA and got transferred 4 times,finally Philipines CS understands the issue,she said the package is still in Australia,so I should have my money back.

So she sent Ebay Australia a message and I won the appeal.

Is it over?I dont know,as there is this cc chargeback he could pursue,plus the package is somewhere,who knows where?

Normally when an item is refused then eBay will ruler in Your favor because it was refused. then it should/would be sent back to You. 

A common scam for foreigners is to NOT pick up the package because they don't want to pay the custom fees. Then when they get their money back they will go to the customs Office and use the money they were refunded and pay for the package to be picked up. He probably did not refuse it but did not pay to pick-up it up.

Good for You for being persistant in calling to get what was right!!  Sugar

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