WikiLeaks

pqdace
New Community Member

PayPal is being used to fund Wikileaks?? 

This makes them complicit .

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684 REPLIES 684

seattle82m
New Community Member

I am canceling the account right now, and I will hesitate to open it again in the future. I'm disappointed in you guys. I hope one day you realize that the policy you have taken against WikiLeaks was wrong.

 

Sincerely

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Henry-R
Member
Member

Shame on you paypal, too bad I can't afford to cancel my account but you sure ruined your company image for me.

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Moebius
New Community Member

I agree,  Don't know if you're caving in to pressure, or making a statement, but either way I won't be associated with you anymore

 

Goodbye

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jsprvngldr
New Community Member

I just deleted my Ebay & PayPal accounts.**bleep** you guys.

 

J. van Gelder, Groningen, Netherlands.

 

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honestly
New Community Member

I'm not sure if I like how Wikileaks operate, but that's beside the point. The Internet has become an important tool for global democracy, making it more and more difficult for governments around the world to suppress people because people share information. When Western governments and corporations gang up and attack a free speech organizations like Wikileaks, then it is a HUGE democracy problem.

 

What Wikileaks is doing is in principle no different than any newspaper that publish leaked information - which happens all the time! Do newspapers brake their terms of service with companies like PayPal and Amazon because they publish "stolen information"? NO! PayPal and Amazon are political activists by shutting out Wikileaks. This is an attack at democracy! Until PayPal and Amazon reconsider their position I will terminate my accounts!

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u01brb2
New Community Member

I agree, Paypal endorses websites such as www.dhagte.com which is clearly now selling fake goods, when you open a dispute paypal always favours dhgate.com!

 

Paypal will no longer support causes that are beneficial to us.  Instead its progit maximisation.  Advocating Sites that can not be regulated because they originate in China is not fair.  How do honest sellers make money when Paypal allows this to happen?

 

 

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richmodo
Contributor
Contributor

I would never cancel my Paypal account because of Wikileaks.   Those of you who support Wikileaks are complete hypocritics.  You think government transparency is a God given right, but yet you want complete privacy.   You can't have it both ways, diplomats, corporations, and individuals deserve the same rights.

 

Diplomats communications deserve the same rights that we all take for granted, and just because Julian Assange has access to the emails does not give him the right to publish without consent.  There is nothing illegal he/wikileaks is exposing except 'Strategy' by government diplomats.

 

Now that Paypal had taken a stand that I admire, I am willing to do business with them because they morals and values that most people respect.    Thank you Paypal for making the right decision.

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AimZ
Contributor
Contributor

I'm sorry to disagree, but you're wrong.

 

We can and should ask to have the cake and eat it too. In the same way that a public figure foregoes the right of privacy in exchange for the privilege of fame, a diplomat has foregone the right to privacy in exchange for the privilege of acting as a representitive face of the government they hail from. If that isn't a sacrifice they feel comfortable to make for the term of their service, they should not be acting as an ambassador.

 

A government is not a person. It should not hold the expectation that it will be privy to the rights granted to a person. It is an agency which exists for the sole purpose of serving the common good of the people who exist within it. If the people who exist within it doubt that it is in fact, serving their common good, there can be no remedy to alleviate this doubt except for the citizens to be able to examine its actions in depth. An implicitly sustained state motto of "Just Trust Me" is foolish and encourages corruption, abuses of the individual's rights and improper and unnecessary curtailing of the rights granted to those citizens. In short: If a government is granted the right to "tell and not show", there can be no way to safeguard against the worst evils of government. Knowledge is the power that allows citizens to regulate their government.

 

Even for regular people, there is an understanding that our privacy exists -only- as far as is reasonable without risking the rights, property or health of others. You do not reasonably expect an officer of the law to not examine you when he pulls you over for swerving simply because "I should have the right to my privacy". You accept that his job requires him to examine your credentials and condition for the welfare of other drivers. Even the smallest action of government will impact all three of the things I have previously mentioned. If we would not tolerate extending a person's right to freedom over those facets of the common good, then we certainly shouldn't be cutting government any breaks in that respect either.

 

And I unfortunately have to disagree with the idea that Julian Assange was out of his rights to display emails he had gained access to. While I like to think my own emails are private, I'm perfectly aware that any number of unsolicited entities such as for instance, my government, have the ability to intercept and put to use anything I am sending. There was never any form of guarantee that it would actually stay private and if I thought there was, that was my mistake for assuming a right that was never actually stated. Email is not the Postal Service despite what people think.

The fact is that Paypal has taken a stand, just like what you've said. And that's the problem. When we allow corporations to become vehicles for political views, we are encouraging financial entities considerably more powerful than the individual to influence democractic systems. The idea of democratic governments has always been that we (the individual) are ants that individually have very little power but collectively can move boulders. A beautiful idea, if not always perfect. How then do we compete when corporations, who have the power to weigh upon the system like bears, begin to push the boulder in the directions they like? Should we, the ants, encourage the bear to push around government as best suits them? If we let, or worse, encourage corporations to 'take a stand' on political matters, especially those outside of their immediate sphere, how long before we have corporations using their collective clout to publicly control or take ownership of governments that depend on their favor? Maybe you should be asking yourself why Paypal making -any- political decision is a good thing, 'right' or 'wrong'.

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richmodo
Contributor
Contributor

I appreciate the detailed response but I'll stop you at your second sentence.  

 

How can we expect diplomats to represent us if all of their conversations are made public.  I'm guessing that ou may not have thought about the strategy that these diplomats use.   

 

There needs to be accountability with our governments and diplomats, but it won't come from making all of their correspondence public.   It happens with enforcing the laws that all already on the books.  

 

These diplomats made communications assuming these conversations were private matters for state department personnel.     Had they known they were going to be made public I'm sure they would have said things differently.  

 

Come on, do you expect all international diplomacy to taped and viewed over a CSPAN type network?  

 

 

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AimZ
Contributor
Contributor

While I find on the surface your basic premise of "If they only followed the laws" sound, it strikes me as a bit devoid of detailed thought. If people (diplomats, leaders, government) followed laws, regulations and inherent standards, duplicity in communique wouldn't be required--harmony would be the goal of every group. The very fact that duplicity is required in politics is evidence that "following the rules" remains an ideal rather than a reality.

 

Sure, if our diplomats followed the laws, there would be no purpose in viewing private communications and the current tactic of double-speak would be more effective... double-speak that is used because we work under the assumption that those we deal with will not follow the standards that they espose to... so if we admit that we don't trust those we deal with enough to forego double-speak in our public and private faces, why would you suggest we trust the agents we send to follow the laws laws perfectly? I mean, if we admit the fire burns dirty, is there any logic in assuming the skillet we put into it will magically remain clean?

 

I like the ideal you've set forward, but that's not reality. Does it harm our collective bargaining power to have occasional unexpected transparency gaffs and checks? Certainly it does.. but the same harm is produced by having three branches of government performing a system of checks and balances guaranteed to baffle, impede and otherwise step on the toes of the other parties. We accept this is better than the alternative of having -no- check in place serving the public voice. I don't believe that a constant transparency is the wisest course, but if a diplomat expects that they will never have their work exposed, that strikes me as being as unsafe as having a legislative body who expects their laws to never be questioned.

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