Please reconsider my friend's ban - did he the same as Putin?

[cimpok]

Hey PayPal,

Some time ago last year you have banned my friend's account, ha cannot even post here, that's why I'm writing. This was a punishment, a life-sentence ban for violating your rules:
He sold his used e-cigarette and got paid thru PayPal for it.
We got it, your rules prohibit selling any tobacco and related products, it includes e-cigarettes although it is a widely recognized healthier alternative to smoking. He was not aware of this rule, neither was me, I admit, I have not read you 452 pages or whatever long rulebook, I think very few of your customers did. We are just normal, law abiding citizens of our countries, using, buying, selling e-cigarettes is not a crime in our countries. He thought it is enough to abide the law and be honest, he did this terrible violation in good faith.

Now in the the wake of this terrible war in Ukraine, we both read about your ban of Russian customers, which we welcome and hope this and all the other sanctions will help to bring that Putin's regime down sooner and you will soon be able to restore your services in Russia under a new, democratic government. We really appreciate your commitment and sacrifice for humanity.

...but there was a strange thought we both had immediately when we heard these news, I even joked with my friend, he got the same punishment from you as the mass-murderer Putin. 

What a sick logic is it?

Could you please reconsider my friend's sentence or another alternative would be to punish Putin harder, I don't know.....    but definitely he doesn't want to sit in the same virtual prison cell with Putin for selling a damn e-cigarette.

regards,
Laszlo

[cimpok]

 'acceptable use policy is not hundreds of pages long its one page'

Have you really read it ever?    Tried to understand also?     Just some examples,  it says 'certain' at least a dozen times in that one page text. 
the English word certain means:  some but not all.     Congratulations!   That's an exact definition of rules!

So, could you please elaborate on all these 'certain's?  Where to look them up?  It will be well above a thousand pages of legislation if you try interpret just these vague uses of 'certain'
What is a 'matrix program',  is it a computer game?   a movie?  or a "get rich quick" scheme?    Is it a 'get rich scheme' if I tell you to get a decent job? 

Or "right of publicity or privacy ... under the laws of any jurisdiction"    Any jurisdiction?   Serious?  That includes  Tongan, Russian, Saudi, or Taliban jurisdiction ? 
Or 'greyhound racing'   Fine, so I can do rabbit racing?   or not?   or it depends?   Or turtle racing?      ...if the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law.       Do you happen to know if turtle racing is permitted in Peru ?   Would it be just one page of text to read all this?   What are you talking about of one page to read?

Or  my favourite  'sales of products or services identified by government agencies to have a high likelihood of being fraudulent'  All countries? All their authorities?    Just 30 authorities per country would result 5850 entities, and I should consider what all of these authorities identify as high likely to be fraudulent?  Please do this but please stay below 20000 pages with your evaluation.

That list is a mess.    You can include just about anything.     In Hungary there are lot of fraudulent ceramic tiles.  They were advertised as frost proof but they were not, some authorities very also involved.  Can I sell tiles in Hungary using PayPal now, what do you think?

ecigarettes are not even listed as prohibited items, they are listed under products requiring approval (a less strict category, isn't it).    Who could think mistakenly selling a single product requiring just an approval deserves the harshest sanction?  What would my friend got for selling a prohibited item, not in the to be approved list, the death penalty?

Would that be so hard to answer what I am asking:    Do you think this or a similar tiny violation of that messy list deserves a lifetime ban at PayPal?  I am asking generally.

[kernowlass]

@cimpok 

Exactly, it states you need pre-approval to sell

 cigarette tobacco products, e-cigarettes, cigars

https://www.paypal.com/de/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full?locale.x=en_DE

Not rocket science in fact clear as day. Your friend did sell them so he was banned.

[cimpok]

In fact he sold a ecig-charger that could be used to charge an e-cigarette, but it could be also used (being a general USB charger) to charge anything with a battery and a USB connector. What do you think does this item match a definition of being an e-cigarette?  Or part of it?   Or is it a general USB charger?    Did he sell it it for to be used with an electronic cigarette?  Is is allowed?  Maybe he told the new owner to not use with an e-cigarette?  but use it for some other equipment only?  Maybe the new owner did not even had an e-cigarette, bought the charger for his phone? How does PayPal know?

He was just reckless to advertise it as an e-cigarette charger. Got this description in his PayPal account. He did not mention these circumstances when asking for a review, because he did not think he will be punished that hard.  May he get a third review ever?   Maybe in 10 years?    Or after 20 years good behavior?

I am asking generally:
Are there also other grades of punishments at PayPal?  Or just the lifelong ban?
Has someone ever got just a warning from PayPal for doing something ?   Do you know of such a case?

[kernowlass]

@cimpok 

So now you are changing what he sold now I have posted clear information on why he was banned?

This is in your first post......

He sold his used e-cigarette and got paid thru PayPal for it.

Not sure about degrees of punishment !!

However I think breaking the acceptable use policy normally ends in a perma ban unfortunately for your mate.

[cimpok]

It was not relevant what he really sold, while the item description said e-cigarette, he got stuck with this description in this case. It was no point arguing with PayPal on what he really sent in the package, he could not prove it without involving the buyer, witnesses, etc. which he tried to avoid because of the embarrassment, costs, hassle. that's why I was writing e-cigarette to simplify my question which was not about this unimportant circumstance at all. My question to you was about the PayPal judgement principles, I am sorry you could not answer this simple question.

My second question came up on the way:  In reality, although he advertised a complete e-cigarette, the buyer contacted him if he can sell the charger only at a reduced price because he did not want the atomizer part. My friend agreed, reduced the price and sold only the charger. This was totally irrelevant for my main question. Although you said it is not rocket science and clear as day, you avoided to answer if a part of or accessory of an electronic cigarette, the charger is considered as a banned product according to PayPal rules. Still waiting for your clear answer, should not be that difficult, it is not rocket science:  yes / no.     
It is a general question, knowing the answer would be useful to all PayPal users.   Is part / accessory  of an e-cigarette is an e-cigarette? Is it banned?   What is it if it is the atomizer?   And what if it is the charger?  (a charger is exactly the same piece of hardware as a phone charger)  Clear as day, isn't it?

[kernowlass]

@cimpok 

Tell you what, as you changed what your friend sold and are now asking a question about another item then read the acceptable use policy and answer your own question.

I told you why he was banned based on what you said he sold, its you that changed the item saying the err buyer asked to ''only'' buy part of the item and so that is what he sold....really? ok right.  Of course its relevant what he sold, that is why he was banned !!!  

[cimpok]

are now asking a question about another item then read the acceptable use policy and answer your own question.

Why the hell I can't ask two questions here?  If you get paid by the number of topics replied to, I can open then another one, just ask.
I can't figure it out from the acceptable use policy if such an item is banned or not, it is beyond my IQ level, that why I am asking you. And while this is a 'clear as day' question, you don't even have to strain yourself to reply. Please do it.

[kernowlass]

@cimpok 

You can ask as many questions as you want but if its not relevant to the thread you started then start a new thread based on your new ''made up'' question having changed the item your friend sold.  

And if you are not paid then why would I be 🤣

I clearly stated the item ''you said'' your friend sold ''before'' you changed the item itself was requiring permission under the acceptable use policy.

You recognised I was correct and that is why you 'changed' the item your friend sold to a 'part' of the item sold. Good try though. 

[cimpok]

I'm getting tired, let me sum up for all those interested, what I have learned so far.

1. You can get the harshest sanction, the perma ban for the slightest violation of any acceptable use policy at PayPal, no difference is made if you sold a truckload of weapons, cocaine or just a single electronic cigarette. The punishment is the same. No further explanation given, any attempt to try to understand the decision process, PayPal's reasoning behind this illogic will meet only arrogance.

2. It is not clear if any part, accessory or related products of any listed product is banned or not, like a e-cig charger, or a gasket for it (small rubber ring), or a Li-Ion battery, or only the whole thing, etc. Lots of permutations possible.  Nobody knows. Even an experienced PayPal expert can't tell.   
The only thing a PayPal user should avoid is the use of 'e-cigarette', or 'cigarette' or any other banned character strings in an item's description which would attract PayPal's server scripts' attention.  You can easily get away with selling a 'charger', but not with 'charger for e-cigarette', although they are the very same products.

The new part was point No.1  for me, the second was pretty much clear in the beginning, I just got annoyed with the 'clear as day' bragging. It is not at all. Thank you, I'm finished.

[ComputerJunkie]

Isn't it funny, I read the rules and regulations just a few minutes ago and the first sentence that stuck out was:

Courteous and respectful posting is expected of all participants.

I am not seeing that in any of your posts.