Does PayPal even read responses to disputes?!

[AngrySeller101]

Here is the issue:

I listed a JetSki exhaust and water box on facebook for sale, Buyer contacts me to buy the item and not once mentions that buying the item is completely dependant on him receiving it in a specific timeframe. Buyer lives in Kuwait, I live in Canada - not a fast shipping route.

I package the item and go to the post office, get three quotes from the various shipping options and only 1 has a guaranteed delivery timeframe. I was given some verbal timeframes from the young attendant which I relay as "I believe the timeframes are X", he decides to use the cheapest and slowest shipping option. I have made no offer to guarantee a shipping duration.

At this point the Buyer has made no comment to say they are only buying for the item if it arrives by X date. So Buyer pays for the item, I take it to the post office and ship it out.

Buyer reviews the tracking information I provided the next day and decides it is going to take too long to arrive (even though a final delivery date isn't listed), asks me to contact the shipping company to try and pay extra to expedite the shipping which he will pay for - which I do and am told it is on its way and they can't change the service. I relay this information to the Buyer.

The Buyer is now unhappy that it is going to take so long and they have to wait for the package to ship halfway across the world, only now they are upset do they tell me the timeline doesn't work and they want a refund immediately. I inform them that if when the item arrives in Kuwait it is not as described they can return it to me in the same condition for a full refund. I used all sorts of protection to package the item so I know it will arrive in pristine condition.

Buyer raises a dispute with PayPal claiming I lied to them and they only purchased the item if it was going to arrive in a certain timeframe, even though they did not choose the only shipping option that had a guaranteed duration. I respond to the dispute and explain the situation to PayPal. While the dispute is being reviewed the Buyer contacts me and tells me they are sorry as they were mad but have calmed down and realised it is not my fault the shipping is taking so long and they will close the dispute (this conversation is on Facebook messenger and I have a record).

PayPal, for a reason I cannot wrap my head around, decide the Buyer is right to be given a full refund for a package they have not even received yet and puts my account into debt for the value of the item.

I have contacted PayPal numerous times to provide them with a copy of the messages the Buyer sent admitting they were wrong to start the dispute and would close it, PayPal are claiming they have not received any of them even though I can see two of the files sitting on the dispute page (I had to upload 2 of them as a photo of 'Damaged Item' as the only two options I have to resolve the claim on that page are that the item was returned damaged - Buyer has not even received it yet! OR Proof Buyer was given a full refund).

The Buyer now has the parts in transit and a full refund, obviously for them this is win-win and they are no now longer returning my messages to do the right thing as they had previously mentioned and return my money.

PayPal seemingly do not read the responses Sellers give in relation to a dispute or look at the supporting documentation as in my small amount of studying contract law for my job there is no way on earth the Buyer should have been given a refund based on the dispute they started and now they have admitted responsibility and said that the dispute will be closed there is absolutely no reason for PayPal not to overturn the decision and reverse the refund they issued to the Buyer incorrectly.

Image attached has names blanked for privacy. Who knows, maybe someone at PayPal will read this and look at the image and give me back my money

[AngrySeller101]

Case# PP-007-070-360-939

[TWoO]

Lol! i was told today by a customer service agent that they don't review conversations outside of the dispute area. I had a similar problem where a buyer bought an item from me that he said was supposedly broken when it arrived. He held it for three weeks ,   tampered with it and tried to "fix' it, and when he couldn't, tried to return it. I refused to accept a return and refund him because I told him that if the item had arrived "broken,' then he should have contacted me immediately and not wait for three weeks while tampering with it. During the dispute, I uploaded snapshots of our conversation where he admitted tampering with the phone, and Paypal ruled in his favor, and he was allowed to return the item for a full refund. So I called customer service and was told that Paypal doesn't even review such evidence as conversations with a buyer that are outside of the Paypal dispute area. So a customer can admit to everything from stealing to robbing a seller blind and it doesn't even matter or factor into the outcome of a dispute.  Let that sink in.  What a great way to protect sellers.    

[AngrySeller101 · Accepted solution]

So, I finally have the problem resolved and the answer to the initial question is probably a 'No' or maybe 'Yes, but they may as well have not read it'.

Lesson is if you want it resolved you have to pick up the phone and speak to someone in the help center to get anything done. Here's the last mail I sent which goes over the issue responding to the message below that which was received in response to the message I previously sent below that:

Hi [BLANKED FOR PRIVACY],

Luckily I took the time to call the PayPal help center at the weekend and the dispute has finally been correctly resolved.

Seemingly there was an error in your systems that allowed the Buyer to raise a dispute for an item 'not as described' before even receiving said item and their complaint was based solely on a shipping duration that PayPal policies do not even cover (unless the date is critical, like a delivery for a wedding for example). Also, I believe your policies require the Buyer to actually ship the item back to the Seller with a tracking number so that your systems can track that the item is returned before issuing a refund - not issuing a full refund before the Buyer even receives the item which is what initially happened here.

I hope that this issue gets flagged internally as whomever was in charge of the 'arbitration' for this case clearly needs some additional training. The claim was not dealt with objectively with the intention of making a fair decision based on verifiable information which is available at the time, I do not believe the information provided was even fully reviewed against PayPal's own policies, as if it was I wouldn't have had to go through this process. The dispute representative I spoke to on the phone was shocked this was allowed to continue as long as it did and said it should have been thrown out by the representative who reviewed the initial dispute submission from the Buyer.

I am happy the issue has now been resolved but I wasted a lot of time unnecessarily.

Regards,

[BLANKED FOR PRIVACY]

Dear [BLANKED FOR PRIVACY],

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

I realise that you're not satisfied with the outcome of this dispute. Our claims process is an arbitration service we offer to help resolve disagreements between buyers and sellers, but as you can imagine, it's extremely difficult for us to reach a decision that satisfies all parties.

We deal with all cases objectively and with the intention of making a fair decision based on verifiable information which is available at the time.

Ultimately this isn't an adequate substitute for a constructive dialogue between you and the other party involved. I would suggest this remains your best option for a satisfactory outcome.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Sincerely,
[BLANKED FOR PRIVACY]
PayPal

Copyright © 1999-2018 PayPal. 661 University Ave. Toronto, ON M5G 1M1. All rights reserved.

From: [BLANKED FOR PRIVACY]
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2018 8:19:47 AM (-07:00)
Subject: Steps to resolve an account limitation

Case# PP-007-070-360-939 I have sent proof of the Buyer admitting he was wrong to start the dispute and would close it 3 times using your file upload system and twice as 'proof of damage to item' in dispute resolution centre. Please review and reverse the refund that was incorrectly issued as soon as possible so that I can use my account.
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user_customer_experience : PERSONAL
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