Tired of waiting for withdrawal... started county court claim.

[PaulMoore]

Tried twice this week to withdraw money from my account, both failed to arrive.  Despite several attempts to resolve it, Paypal are unable to explain why they are withholding my money.

I've asked nicely, spent countless costly hours on the phone and I'm still no further forward.

I've been through this process before when Paypal withheld company funds for 2 months.  Numerous calls, emails etc and still they refused to release our money.  To be fair, that was a single transaction over £10k... but we've moved far greater amounts with Barclays and never experienced any difficulties, not even internationally.

Last time, I passed it over to the solicitor (the same solicitor as it happens) and unsurprisingly, the funds were released 24hrs later.  It never went to court.  Were Paypal admitting liability by doing this? Who knows.

Paypal have always been quick to quote their User Agreement when issues such as this arise.  Fortunately, T&C's do not negate the law.  I'm not suggesting any part of their current terms breach any laws/regulations, but if it did... acceptance of those terms does not make them legally enforcable.

For example, a user agreement / T&C could state...

"You agree to indemnify, defend and hold harmless any Paypal parties from and against any claim resulting from the fraudulent activity of its members, employees or shareholders."

So, if an employee steals your money... there's no legal redress because you agreed to the terms.  Thankfully, that's not the case... regardless of how fulsome and eloquent the agreement.

----

FAO: Executive Escalations Team
Current Unique Transaction Reference: <snip>
Paypal Account: <snip>

To whom it may concern,

On September 4th 2012, I opened a personal Paypal account in order to withdraw PAYE earnings from a limited company; also registered as a Payments Pro merchant with Paypal.

In order to trial the process, I transferred £120 from our company accounts to my personal account. I started the withdrawal and was informed that following a 72hr security review, the funds would be released.

Paypal of their own free volition, opted to send the payment using the Faster Payments Service. As mandated by the Financial Services Authority, FPS payments must reach the account no later than 24hrs after the order was made.

Unfortunately, the payment failed to arrive and never left the "pending" state. Despite several calls with supervisors & managers over the last few days, you have been unable to outline exactly why the payment wasn't released. You have, however, given assurances that neither I nor the payment had been flagged as fraudulent and there was no obvious reason why it hadn't gone through.

Upon your advice, the withdrawal was cancelled so I could try to withdraw again. The most recent attempt was at 1:21PM yesterday (06/09/12), meaning by 1:21PM today, the payment should have arrived. Yet again, the withdrawal is sitting in a "pending" state and shows no sign of being released any time soon.

The transaction reference for the initial (now reversed) payment is: <snip>

I have since had your terms reviewed by our company solicitor and received feedback from the FSA with reference to the legality of Section 6.2 b (3) of the Paypal User Agreement dated July 10, 2012. It is my belief that Paypal are now in breach of FSA regulations and that you're failure to explain or address this matter appropriately or fairly has led to this conclusion.

I feel I have exhausted all reasonable methods of resolving this dispute with you and am left with no alternative than to pursue this matter through the courts. A copy of this correspondence has been sent to your registered offices.

I invite your feedback on this matter.

Yours faithfully,

Paul Moore

----

I'll update this thread if necessary.

[PaulMoore]

Quick update...

Day 4, still no funds.  Still shows as pending.

No response from Executive Escalations either, but no surprise there.

It will take a few weeks for the courts to write to Paypal, Paypal to forward it to Luxembourg, then respond etc etc.  If they don't enter a defence in time, we're golden.  Otherwise, I'll let Roscoe (the solicitor) handle it.

[PaulMoore]

Well, the 72hr period has *just* expired on the second attempt...

The money has arrived!

Which leads me to believe two things...

1.  The process really is entirely automated.

2.  The 72hr timeframe isn't a maximum at all; it's a period SET BY PAYPAL... after which, the payment is released.

Are we supposed to believe the "review" took EXACTLY 72hrs, not by a human, but by a machine?

I'll update the solicitor tomorrow and move on to the next stage of the process.

[PaulMoore]

Received a 20 minute phone call from Executive Escalations...

I won't bore you with all the details, just the important bits.

1.  If your withdrawal goes to the 72hr pending state, nobody at Paypal can force it through... they can only reverse it.

2.  Paypal have received several complaints on the subject, they are working on a fix.

When I said... "you realise that's admitting liability", he clammed up and tried desperately to back track.

3.  They could, but won't discuss exactly why the withdrawal was withheld because "it puts our security systems at risk".

In my case, this is what he "thinks is the most likely reason" for the delay...

1.  It was a brand new personal account.

2.  The funds were transferred in from another Paypal account in my name.  Just to clarify, it's in the company's name, I'm a director.  Two legally-separate entities.

3.  I tried to withdraw on the same day.

4.  I accessed both accounts from the same machine.

When I questioned the fact that as both Director of the company sending the funds, and as the person receiving the funds... once Paypal had been put on notice that the payments were indeed genuine, they had absolutely no basis to withhold the money.

"Once it's in the 72hr review period, we can't do anything about it.  We've had several complaints about it and it's something we're looking to address.  It's not just as simple as one line of code though..."

I asked - "will future withdrawals be held in the same manner, even though you now know they are genuine?"

"Most likely, yes."

I've just played that snippet to Roscoe (the solicitor) and I won't repeat exactly what he said... but essentially, we have everything we need to continue in court.

[PaulMoore]

Email just arrived as I posted that last comment...

"When a withdrawal is placed on hold, there is no facility to release it in advance of the expiration date of the hold, however we are currently investigating further into improvements that can be put in place to allow for a better customer experience, while still being able to mitigate any associated risks."

So there you have it... Paypal have no control over their own systems.  That's good enough for me...

[RowBot]

Good stuff PaulMoore. I've had my money messed with by Paypal twice, the last time was back in january. My withdrawal took 7 days to appear in my bank account. When I asked Paypal why they told me it was due to a 72 hour security which was random. They didn't tell me the money was being held. Because of this I made a lot of complaints & they actually gave me compensation. Since then my withdrawals went through no problems, til this week.

I've been hit with another 72 hour security hold on a withdrawal I made on 10th Sep. I recieved an email saying it would take 2-3 days and would be in my bank account by the 13th, which it wasn't. In fact it's now 14th & the status has only just changed from 'pending' to completed. I've now got to sit & wait for the normal 2-3 days to get my money.

I called Paypal and spoke to two people including a manager. I asked why I wasn't told my money was being held, it took about 15 minutes for them to admit they didn't know. They also gave me the rubbish about they can't stop their own internal security system, and they would not tell me why my money was held in the first place.

I have now made a formal complaint via email, no response as yet. Last time I got compensation so we'll see what happens this time round.

RowBot

[Domtat]

I withdrew money to my *verified* bank account and it will also take 72 hours.  This money was paid into my account, is legitimate, and belongs to me!  Do they hold this money to make interest?   I called them and I got some excuse about making sure it's going to the right bank account?  It's happened before but I got a completely different excuse.  I was also reminded that this is free service that they have to pay for!  Believe me!  I've payed plenty of paypal fees!  My bank account is verified....I logged in with my password and requested the withdrawal ?  I PASSED all the security verifications when my account was opened.  So now I'm waiting for £2750 that I need URGENTLY for my pets surgery.  The surgery is required asap or my pets life is in danger.  Waiting....waiting..... I just hope it doesn't take the maximum of 72 hours.  I expect it will. Maybe it's because they think I'm laundering money or drug trafficking ? Funny but wth! SO ANGRY!

[kernowlass]

The 2 hour withdrawal is not guaranteed as stated in the user agreement.

It can take up to 72 hours.