PayPal pending payment

socrcoach17
New Community Member

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

Login to Me Too
489 REPLIES 489

catty
Member
Member

What does paypal consider an established payment history and a record of good performance?  They should let sellers know this upfront that they have to show a record of good performance and an established payment history prior to them signing up for paypal, so that they can figure another way to fund their shipping costs.  Also, if the seller sends an item with delivery confirmation, can they use the delivery confirmation to prove that the item was delivered, you can't count on a buyer leaving feedback anymore. 

Login to Me Too

blue-c
Contributor
Contributor

hey guys. so heres the solution:

 

after you get your money from paypal. CLOSE YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT!

Login to Me Too

temp201906202h
Contributor
Contributor

Great idea and actively considering other options!!

Login to Me Too

pullmyfinger
Contributor
Contributor

blue-c , you say hey guys just close your account that sounds typical of some one running a business off rich mommy and daddys account and not having to fight for what is right cause you can curl up on meemas couch .!!!!!

Login to Me Too

blue-c
Contributor
Contributor

uh, thanks? two things.

 

1-i'm not in any kind of buisiness selling merch. but money is hard to come by to i'm selling things that i usually would not. i.e. my camera, i'm an artist (thus selling a camera would then limit my medium exporations for now).

 

2-since paypal is obviously not even listening to anyone here, or on the phone, or by email. h3II, even amanda stopped showing up with her canned responses. my hope was that if enough people closed their accounts, and paypal lost a sizable ammount of money. then they might decide to change the policy.

 

also, i've sumbited my story to the consumerist. now, if enough of you guys sumbited your stories, then they might do an article about it. then sumbit it to digg, get it on the front page. the power of the people is not our logically and morally correct positions, but our numbers which can cost companies their numbers.

 

and i believe its spelled memaw.

Login to Me Too

pullmyfinger
Contributor
Contributor

1) Im an artist to i do constrution ,,,get over yourself! (2) Someone is always listening bet on it ,closing your account yeah ok let me complicate my life some more ,glad you got the time and can afford the expense being an artist and all ,they can hold out longer then all of us and if not they'll fold and mutate into something else and do it all over again.(3) I believe its submitted.(4) what world are you from this is about rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.

Login to Me Too

blue-c
Contributor
Contributor

what have i done to offend you? who said i had money? just becasue i'm an artist doesn't mean i can afford to be. and i pointed out that i was an artist becasue my probelm with paypal was the holding of my money when i sold my equipment needed to make art.

 

i don't see why you're so bent on fighting me when you should be fighting paypal. plus, when have i said that the poor was getting richer and the rich were getting poorer? this convo with you is moot. don't think you know me when you've read one post.

Login to Me Too

Arlykat
Contributor
Contributor
POSTED BY PULLMYFINGER: Re: PayPal pending payment[ New ]

"1) Im an artist to i do constrution ,,,get over yourself! (2) Someone is always listening bet on it ,closing your account yeah ok let me complicate my life some more ,glad you got the time and can afford the expense being an artist and all ,they can hold out longer then all of us and if not they'll fold and mutate into something else and do it all over again.(3) I believe its submitted.(4) what world are you from this is about rich getting richer and poor getting poorer."

==============

Jeese Pullmyfinger - cool your jets some.  The poster you are yelling at isn't the enemy here, why not direct your anger into a constructive letter to your Attorney General or something.  How about calling PayPal's toll free number 1000 times a day and let them start picking up the bill for so many calls they will start receiving.  Keep your eye on the true enemy here and we will all collectively benefit from it.

 

 

Login to Me Too

wolfdaddy205
Contributor
Contributor

CLOSE YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT!?, you bet!

"interest crooks"

Login to Me Too

chrisisit
Member
Member

I am so mad at Paypal right now!!!  I just received notice that my account would be subject to pending funds!!!  Totally Blindsided by the whole thing!!!  Why aren't they required to give you at least a "21" day notice of this...that way, you could somewhat prepare!!!  I have 100% feedback....I have a "5" star rating in one category and a "4.9" in the rest....I think I would be considered pretty safe to deal with!!  I am just fuming!!  I don't do e-Bay for my health, I do it to help support my son and I and when I find out that I will NOT be receiving my money is just beyond belief!!  On top of everything else, the auctions that have closed since their decision did not specify in the auction that they would have to pay for a "confirmation" fee of .70-.80 cents...now, that's more money out of my pocket and I will have to let my customers know from now on that purchasing a confirmation is REQUIRED and not a choice!!  .....And while we're talking about Paypal, is anyone else ticked off about the fact that "OUR FEES" are based on the total invoice price and not just the "ACTUAL" auction price....this guys are getting a percentage on the shipping/handling/confirmation, etc fees!!!  Is there anyway to send an invoice to a customer without the shipping charges getting a percentage charged?  I'd like to figure it out!  I wish I could still take MO and not even fool with Paypal.....just another way to corner the market and get every nickel they can out of us!!  I'M Paypal, and I'm sure you don't give a RIP!!!

Login to Me Too

Haven't Found your Answer?

It happens. Hit the "Login to Ask the community" button to create a question for the PayPal community.