PayPal pending payment

socrcoach17
New Community Member

I would like to hear from someone at PayPal the answers to several specific questions relating to the pending payment policy. I have read the various threads on this, and the relevant section of the Terms of Service Agreement, but these are questions not answered elsewhere.

 

FIrst, the background. Like so many others here, I was caught by surprise when payment was held up for an item I sold on eBay. The item sold for $455 and because it is heavy and bulky, the shipping charge was $225 (in the actual fact, it cost me more than that amount to pack and ship and I ate the difference). The winning bidder paid immediately via PayPal. PayPal immediately marked this as a "pending" payment. The item was shipped less than 48 hours after the auction closed and delivered yesterday. I supplied the tracking information to PayPal/eBay as instructed. The payment still shows simply as "pending" and when I click on "Details" I am told that status applies for another 14 days, OR 3 days after PayPal can determine that the item was delivered, OR 3 days after the buyer leaves positive feedback.

 

There is no way for me to verify that PayPal/eBay knows now that the item was, in fact, delivered yesterday. There is no way to know when and if a change in pending status has occurred. The policy is ambiguous as to whether delivery even matters for an eBay auction item, or if only positive buyer feedback will release the funds in less than 21 days.

 

QUESTION 1: If the item was sold pursuant to an eBay auction, is the pending status changed when the SOONER OF or LATER OF the two listed events occur: provable delivery or positive buyer feedback? How can I verify that PayPal now knows the item was delivered and, therefore, that the 3-day clock has started to count down?

 

PayPal positions itself as the most convenient way for a seller to accept payments, especially on eBay transactions. I was charged a $20+ fee for this transaction. I had to front the $225 shipping charge. I now have to wait an arbitrary amount of time for payment, with no feedback from PayPal as to status before or after the buyer submitted his PayPal payment transaction. In the very best case, the funds will hit my bank account two weeks from when the auction closed because of the holiday weekend.

 

QUESTION 2: Why is this good for me as a seller? You are charging me premium transaction fees, what service am I AS A SELLER getting in return for this policy and the fees charged?

 

The most basic tenet of contract law is that the parties have to agree to the terms in order for there to be a contract. PayPal's Terms of Service Agreement relating to pending payments is hopelessly vague, to the degree that I question that it constitutes a contract. It would not be a valid contract for me to say, for example, "I can do whatever I want for any reason" and for you to agree, and for me to then take your car and your house. I could argue that your agreement was stupidity on your part (which is, essentially, PayPal's response to sellers in the various threads and is vaguely insulting), but I could not defend such capricious actions in court based on that "contract." Particularly in a dependent situation like this

 

The PayPal pending payment policy does not, for example, let me know, as a seller, whether I or any given transaction are subject to being pended, what I can do to prevent it, or what specific criteria PayPal will use. PayPal relies on terms like "high risk" that clearly mean something very different to the sellers who have spoken out in this forum than they mean to PayPal. In no way would I, as a reasonable seller, read the text of the TOSA and interpret it as meaning what PayPal is, in fact, doing. You are doing things that are not reasonable interpretations that a reasonable seller would be expected to conclude are consistent with the TOSA's language. They appear to be arbitrary and capricious and unrelated to the stated policy.

 

In short, a seller "agreeing" to the TOSA can have no basis for understanding what it now turns out PayPal means by those words.

 

QUESTION 3: How does the TOSA, regarding pending payment holds, constitute a valid contract, given that you provide no way for the seller to know what he/she is agreeing to and that reasonable sellers clearly think you are interpreting this language in ways opposite to the way they understand it?

 

Given that PayPal relies on its "sole discretion," there is an implied obligation for the policy and its enforcement to rationally relate to its purpose.

 

As with so many others, there is no evidence in my case of any kind of a problem. This was a personal sale, but I own a company that accepts credit cards based in large part on my own credit history, and have had no problem with approvals for those transactions from banks, or any problems with any specific transactions. There is no history of complaints against me personally or my company, I have no criminal history, no financial fraud, solid credit rating, bank account has been verified. In other words, PayPal has reached a decision about my "risk" that is opposite what other financial institutions that provide similar services have concluded.

 

QUESTION 4: How does the pending payment discretion policy of PayPal rationally relate to actual risks to buyers, its putative purpose? What does the term "high likelihood" mean anyway - 50%? 10%? 1%? What statistical evidence does PayPal have that the criteria used are predictive of a "high likelihood" (whatever that means) of buyer dissatisfaction? Is there any such evidence at all that eBay frequency is a reliable predictor, or is this just someone's guess?

 

Clearly, this policy benefits PayPal financially. You get the benefit of interest on the funds while they are in pending status. It is like travellers checks - the financial institution makes money on the float. Therefore, PayPal has set itself up with a clear conflict of interest, between fairly interpreting ambiguous or discretionary sections of the TOSA, e.g., what constitutes "risk" to buyers, and what is financially beneficial for PayPal.

 

QUESTION 5: Will PayPal remove this conflict by paying interest on the funds held? If not, how can you claim to not have an egregious conflict of interest in your unilateral interpretation of the TOSA?

 

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489 REPLIES 489

Ted_Maul
Contributor
Contributor

100% agree with the post above. I'm fuming. I have just suffered the same problem. When selling my much loved record player. The reason I sold it is because I need the money, which will include absorbing the cost of packaging a large item and sending securely - which the buyer has paid for. Paypal has the money I need to fulfil the sale. I use ebay to sell items so I can make money that I need relatively urgently not just for the fun of it. This pathetic policy is probably going to jeopardise the sale as I haven't the funds to post the item. I have 100% feedback on items that are now covered by this outrageous policy. Cynics may say you're more interested in sitting on a pot of money for longer to earn those extra millions in interest than the welfare of buyers. As scocrcoach17 says isn't what your insurance is for?

 

I'm seriously considering not using paypal for my forthcoming sales (all of which will suffer from the same problem) and arranging direct payment from buyers into my account. Which is quite easy to do with internet banking these days. In fact I may get the buyer to cancel his payment.

 

I too would like to formally request to hear from Payapl and to answer my and socrcoach17's questions.

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CHIEFRANNY
Contributor
Contributor

YOU HOLD MY MONEY!!!! I stop using paypal - its time to start taking Postal money orders again - Its all about power and control - this is the last straw - what a bunch of Communist Crap!!!

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pebbles
Contributor
Contributor

 

Yep ... postal money order is safer than personal check and regular money order and cashiers check

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shawnhensontn
Contributor
Contributor

I started EBAY and PAYAPL to sell items and buy sometimes. WITHOUT having to use a bank account.

 

i have sold several items as a standard user.  bought items  no problem.

 

I recenlty  opened a ebay store (paid for that)

paid the fees for listing

and the items i placed with that  as soon as its sold it was placed in pending at paypal.

so this puts a bind on things that im buying cause the money isnt there.

 

*when we buy items we must pay ontime

*when we sell items we must ship ontime

 

my rating is 100% (before they started holding the money)

 

so them holding money makes no sense.

 

i would understand if i had a bad feedback as a seller or something  but they are hurting the good guys.

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bkasl
Contributor
Contributor

is this a new procedure? I have simple $30 item sold on ebay still awaiting a cleared receipt via Paypal, shows pending now for 3 days and I will not send item to buyer until I have money in hand, so it makes me look bad, but I have been burned before. Is the pending money in my account as good as there?

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done
New Community Member

BACK TO AMAZON.COM

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avela123
New Community Member

I agree. but me, as a buyer- a seller can leave negative feedback for something we have no control over. Smiley Mad  PAYPAL NEEDS TO FIX THIS REAL QUICK. Before i close acct and just stick to craigslist for selling and buying.

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wolfdaddy205
Contributor
Contributor

,,my days of selling ANYTHING out of the "bay" are coming to an end!!!,

same with shipping "First Class?" with the USPS. (what a joke)

When the lying word of a foreign con artist trumps a U.S. Customs Shipping form  as to Proof of shipping, that"s my que!

I'm not fond of extortion, from ANYBODY!

SELLERS BEWARE OF YOUR "PAL's" and HEAVY HANDEDNESS! 

"Evidence" to them is....speculative?

NOT impressed @ all..... Smiley Surprised

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1968hans
Contributor
Contributor

YOU ARE ON THE SPOT,AT THIS POINT I DO NOT CARE IF I SELL OR NOT,SHIP WITH NO PAYMENT JUST TO DO THE RIGHT THING.YOU CAN KEEP PAYPAL FUNDS,BUT NOT FUTURE TRANSACTIONS. FOOL ME ONCE!!!!!!!!!!

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WHB_TECH
New Community Member

I FULLY AGREE PAYPAL IS REAPING ILL-GOTTEN GAINS FROM THE CAPRICIOUS "HOLD" POLICY. I HAD STOPPED USING PAYPAL SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS INFORMED EBAY OWNED PAYPAL AND IN THE SAME YEAR REALIZED WHAT A SAD JOKE EBAY'S BUYER PROTECTION WAS. SO I SIMPLY QUIT USING PAYPAL AND PAYED OR RECEIVED PAYMENT USING POSTAL MONEY ORDERS. I STILL HAVE A 100% RATING BUT NOW I FOUND OUT AFTER WANTING TO SELL AN ITEM (I DON'T BUY AND SELL VERY OFTEN) THAT EBAY WON'T ALLOW PAYMENT BY MONEY ORDERS ANYMORE. SO I REOPENED A PAYPAL ACCOUNT, SOLD ONE ITEM WITH NO PROBLEM AND NO PAYMENT HOLD. THEN WHEN I SOLD ANOTHER ITEM EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE FIRST PAYPAL PUT A HOLD ON THE FUNDS. FORTUNATELY I WAS FOREWARNED OF PAYPAL'S INCONSISTANCY IN THESE MATTERS AND I INFORMED THE POTENTIAL BUYERS I WILL NOT SHIP THE ITEM UNTIL I HAVE THE PAYMENT IN MY BANK ACCOUNT, NOT THE PAYPAL ACCOUNT. SO HERE WE GO; PAYPAL EITHER RELEASES THE PAYMENT OR LOSES THE SALE AND LOSES ME AS A CUSTOMER FOR THE SECOND TIME IN A DECADE AND THIS TIME FOR GOOD.

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