A Fair Solution To The 21 Day Hold

[SirTinLee]

Ok, let's face it, no matter how much we complain, PayPal is not going to stop their 21 day hold policy.  The complaining has gone on for more than a year from what I have read.   Many may not agree, but PayPal has a right to institute policy they believe will protect or enrich the business.  My problem is that they do not offer a simple means for sellers to have the 21 day hold lifted when waranted.   Right now, PayPal's answer to the many compalints is basically - if you don't like it, don't use PayPal - and although their are other money transmitters, PayPal is the most popular and directly associated with eBay.  It does not seem to be beneficial for any of us to just stop using PayPal.   However, it would seem to be very beneficial to stop selling on eBay until PayPal makes it easier to for us to have money released prior to the 21 day hold when warranted.   By joining together and not selling on ebay, we can hit both ebay and PayPal in the pockets.  eBay and PayPal need sellers just as much as they need buyers, there are other popular sites to sell on and alternatives to Paypal if need be.    Of course, for this to work, we need numbers and some of the big sellers to be effective.   Let's start with those being effected now.  If all you are going to do is complain, then don't expect relief, they have a business to run and believe their policy is vital to their properity regardless of how it effects you.  So, if you want to stop crying and start doing something about this issue, speak up and let it be known how many are on board?   A simle "yes" in response to this idea will be sufficient.

[bcraggs]

PLEASE DO AS I DID CONTACT YOUR BUYERS DIRECT THEM TO THE FORUM THEN ASK THEM TO LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK IMMEDIATLY , THAT WAY THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THEY CAN HANG ONTO YOUR FUNDS . AND IF BUYERS WONT LEAVE FEEDBACK (AND EBAY ARE RELYING ON THIS ) EXPLAIN TO THEM THAY AS WITH ANY TRANSACTION AS SOON AS THE POSTAGE THEY PAID IS RELEASED , WE WILL POST OUT THAT DAY , IF THEY WISH TO HAVE THERE ITEM RELEASED SOONER GET ONTO EBAY AND PAYPAL AND TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK , LETS SEE HAW THAT WORKS OUT FOR THEM

ANY BUSINESS RELIES ON ITS REPUTATION EBAY / PAYPAL YOU BOTH JUST SHOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT , HAVENT YOU?

STUPID RULES , STUPID EXPLANATION , STUPID EXECUTION

[7yearseller]

This won't work. Buyers don't want to get involved in all of this between sellers and eBay/Paypal. They will see it as only a problem with you since it is highly likely other sellers would not do this. I have seen one other on here who said he was going to do the same thing, but the problem with not shipping until you have the funds is you open yourself up to a non shipment dispute, and when that happens your account will have a hold on it for a longer period of time. Holds do come off if you do it the way Paypal says. A time of doing this, if you have no disputes or chargebacks, will eventually release your holds if you have high ratings in the DSRs. Of course, if there is anything that is a red flag to Paypal, the hold would come back on...like a dispute, a chargeback, a sudden increase in sales volume for no apparent reason, new category you have never sold in before (because they don't have a record of how well you do in this category)...I know, that does not seem fair, but it is what it is, and we are too few to change it. We just have to go with the flow for now.

Today I read where someone stated they had found a post on holds as far back as 2002, so it has been around for a while, the actual holds I mean. The policy has always been there, No. 10.4.  Paypal is just tightening the rules that were already there. And, no I am not for the holds. I just understand why. I feel I have to say this every time or "someone" here will call me a Paypal apologist.

I would like to see it end just as much as any of the people here, but if this is because of the monies lost via many bad sellers, I would rather have the hold to be sure the buyers did receive what they actually ordered so Paypal does not have to reimburse them (which could then cause eBay fees to go up higher like they used to be) than to see Paypal shut down. You can go to other payment venues eBay allows, but you won't find one with as fair a hold. Yes, the others have holds.

[brewbear]

I have no problem with a hold of a few days.  My problem is with the fact that they do not release your funds in a timely manner.  Ebay and Paypal are a monopoly which has become too big and is no longer seller friendly.  I send everything via USPS Priority with delivery confirmation and tracking.  Unfortunately of late it seems buyers are not leaving any feedback....I have no idea why.  I have tried contacting the buyer and asked them to please leave feedback. I have gone so far as to tell the buyer that I will leave feedback for them once they have posted feedback for their purchase...it still doesn't work.  I think the other problem is that so many really huge sellers which are actually business have various usernames on Ebay.  They buy things with one username and sell them with another in many instances.  They don't care about leaving feeedback for their purchases from us, the little small sellers who sell in order to assist with our everyday income. By not leaving feedback for us it holds up Paypal releasing our pending funds.....that is ToTAlly UNFAIR!!!  Just today I have a pending amount of over $200.00 which was supposed to have been released but still is pending.  I have tried contacting Paypal, as usual, to no avail.  It's so frustrating and it almost seems as though Ebay and Paypal only want large volume sellers who are already in the retail/wholesale business to sell on their site.  Ah, the good old Ebay days are gone my friends.....our ability to sell items, receive prompt payment, feedback from our buyers, and ability to use Ebay to supplement our ever dwindling income days our over....

[7yearseller]

Hi bcraggs,

This is not just for you but for everyone who has not seen it. I found the posted reply from Paypal_Andy after I asked him the question about the holds on shipping. This was copied and pasted directly from the post on July 11, 2011. If this is not happening with your shipping funds, then maybe Andy can shed some light on it for you. He states at the end to let him know if this does not answer it.

Re: ANSWER to SHIPPING FUNDS RELEASE via asking PAYPAL_ANDY

Jul-11-2011 07:21 PM

Hey all!

Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply to your concerns 7yearseller, but it was kinda the weekend.  I only do work things when work pays me

After reading your questions and some of the other questions, it occurred to me that just possibly we haven't laid out in one place exactly how your money gets released in the case of holds, including the shipping.  So let's get that outta the way.

The 21 day hold is the absolute maximum that a payment would be on hold (excluding of course if you received a dispute).  For the full amount to be released before that point, you would need online tracking at which point we would release the payment 3 days after we can confirm delivery.  This is to allow the buyer time to use the product and possibly file a dispute.  If you use PayPal/eBay shipping, our system is smart enough to check that tracking number and automatically release the hold 3 days after delivery.  If you add a tracking number from the payment details, our system has issues checking that and most likely won't automatically release the payment (sometimes it will, which I have no explanation for). 

As far as the shipping costs, if you use PayPal shipping, our system releases the cost of shipping within 24 hours of creating the label; in a lot of cases within a few moments of printing the label.  This is supposed to work using eBay shipping as well, but I believe that that is a little hit or miss (simply because the communicate between eBay and PayPal's systems doesn't always work as smoothly as we might like).  If you do not have an available balance prior to creating the label, the system will use your funding source (most likely your bank) for the cost of shipping then will release that amount into your PayPal balance.  To avoid using your funding source to pay for the label, I would recommend floating a couple of transactions in your account (so instead of withdrawing everything, you leave enough of a balance to cover shipping of one or more items).  This will keep you from having to pay for shipping out of your pocket and mathematically will maintain that balance in your account.

So that's the long and short of holds being released and shipping costs being released.  As I stated in my first response to you, we sometimes have....gremlins...that keep things from working as they should.  But under ideal (and mostly ideal) circumstances, the above is how things should work. I sincerely apologize that you've received mixed messages from the agents that you've spoken with on the phone.  Obviously that's something we'll need to address internally so everyone is on the same page. 

On a separate level, I do want to say that I appreciate you trying to keep this a positive thread (for now ).  I hope that the vitriol that has infested some of the other threads about this topic can be kept at bay.

Finally, I hope this clears this up and condenses things into a nice and easy to understand package.  If not, lemme know and I'll see what I can do about answering questions.  But remember, if it's a question like "Why does my account have holds, I've never done anything!", I won't be able to answer that.  We cannot provide account specific assistance here on the boards, so you would need to contact a customer service agent for that.

Andy

[7yearseller]

Hey all!

Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply to your concerns 7yearseller, but it was kinda the weekend.  I only do work things when work pays me

After reading your questions and some of the other questions, it occurred to me that just possibly we haven't laid out in one place exactly how your money gets released in the case of holds, including the shipping.  So let's get that outta the way.

The 21 day hold is the absolute maximum that a payment would be on hold (excluding of course if you received a dispute).  For the full amount to be released before that point, you would need online tracking at which point we would release the payment 3 days after we can confirm delivery.  This is to allow the buyer time to use the product and possibly file a dispute.  If you use PayPal/eBay shipping, our system is smart enough to check that tracking number and automatically release the hold 3 days after delivery.  If you add a tracking number from the payment details, our system has issues checking that and most likely won't automatically release the payment (sometimes it will, which I have no explanation for). 

As far as the shipping costs, if you use PayPal shipping, our system releases the cost of shipping within 24 hours of creating the label; in a lot of cases within a few moments of printing the label.  This is supposed to work using eBay shipping as well, but I believe that that is a little hit or miss (simply because the communicate between eBay and PayPal's systems doesn't always work as smoothly as we might like).  If you do not have an available balance prior to creating the label, the system will use your funding source (most likely your bank) for the cost of shipping then will release that amount into your PayPal balance.  To avoid using your funding source to pay for the label, I would recommend floating a couple of transactions in your account (so instead of withdrawing everything, you leave enough of a balance to cover shipping of one or more items).  This will keep you from having to pay for shipping out of your pocket and mathematically will maintain that balance in your account.

So that's the long and short of holds being released and shipping costs being released.  As I stated in my first response to you, we sometimes have....gremlins...that keep things from working as they should.  But under ideal (and mostly ideal) circumstances, the above is how things should work. I sincerely apologize that you've received mixed messages from the agents that you've spoken with on the phone.  Obviously that's something we'll need to address internally so everyone is on the same page. 

On a separate level, I do want to say that I appreciate you trying to keep this a positive thread (for now ).  I hope that the vitriol that has infested some of the other threads about this topic can be kept at bay.

Finally, I hope this clears this up and condenses things into a nice and easy to understand package.  If not, lemme know and I'll see what I can do about answering questions.  But remember, if it's a question like "Why does my account have holds, I've never done anything!", I won't be able to answer that.  We cannot provide account specific assistance here on the boards, so you would need to contact a customer service agent for that.

Andy

[SirTinLee]

7, thank you for sharing that message from Andy with us.   To me it is the first official heartfelt and sincere communication I've seen from PayPal Staff.

[JIMMYDO]

You are doomed to be pay paled. Sending you a repair kit. Good luck.

[JIMMYDO]

Stop paypal

[SirTinLee]

Did the law suit work in 2008 and 2009?     I could be wrong, but I don't believe it worked.    What did happened was a bunch of complainers TEMPORARLY stopped selling on ebay at different times so it had no effect.   You want results, get ready to join the "Sell IN", hundreds of people that will stop selling on ebay at the same time for 30 days.  Our alternative?  webstore.com    

[Lanacop]

I've had my account for a number of years and have never had money on hold.  This 21 days is new for me and as just a little pollywog in the big pond (selling my things and those of my neighbors to survive this economy)  this could do me in and make it impossible for me to pay my bills...money is just that tight!  I've had an excellent 'unblemished' record on eBay and PayPal and with the required credit card on file (to cover my butt) I find the policy to be baseless & inappropriate.

[SirTinLee]

It is a shame that PayPal and eBay continue to impose policies that hurt the very type of people that made them the giants that they are today.   If you would like an alternative to eBay, check out webstore.com.  Sure, it may not have the traffic that eBay enjoys today, but eBay didn't have the traffic it enjoys today either - at one point in time.