Refund from Chinese Scammers

[Temp20230724C]

I have an ongoing dispute. PayPal have indicated that I must return the goods, at my own expense, to Chinese scammers located IN CHINA before I can receive a full refund. Surely this can't be right? Trustpilot provides evidence that numerous others have been scammed in the same way as myself. I can't find any way to discuss this issue with Paypal. Any suggestions please?

[kernowlass]

@Temp20230724C 

In the event of a dispute you choose your seller and not Paypal so you need to bear in mind possible return trackable costs before you go ahead and buy from that seller / country.

Paypal state this >>
IMPORTANT: You may be required to return the item to the seller or other party we specify as part of the settlement of your claim. PayPal Buyer Protection does not entitle you to reimbursement for the return shipping costs that you may incur.

You also have the option to do a chargeback via your card issuer instead of a Paypal dispute if you funded your Paypal payment via a credit card.

[Temp20230724C]

So, PayPal won't provide a refund until the goods are returned at the buyer's expense, even though a scam, a criminal deception, has on balance of probability been committed?

[kernowlass]

@Temp20230724C 

Its not against the law in China to sell fakes and most of the stuff bought via Social Media or China websites is tat anyway.

Paypal covers you for non receipt of item OR item received but not as described on condition you return the item back to the seller first.

If you read up on buyer protection before using Paypal you would be aware of those conditions and would be able to risk assess your own transactions. (Paypal can't do that for you which is why they give you the buyer protection policy).

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/buyer-protection

You chose to go ahead and purchase from them and so Paypal is doing exactly what they say they will do in their buyer protection policy ie give you a refund on return of goods.

[Temp20230724C]

Thanks for all that kernowlass. The significant difference between the scenario that you describe "selling tat in China", and the dilemma I face, is that the vendor used fraud to sell their 'tat'. Using the name of a reputable company and false images on their adverts is fraud. This is against the law in the UK. So am I right that PayPal side with the criminals and law in their country rather than the victim and laws in their country? From what you're asserting it will cost me £24 to recover my £60 from the perpetrator. Irrespective of whether I read the small print or not, Pay Pal should look at all the evidence, as would a court in any country and make a decision. The vendor and purchaser can sort out return of the goods subsequently.

[kernowlass]

@Temp20230724C 

The laws of a country and what paypal offer you are 2 totally separate things.

Paypal offers you buyer protection on return of the item received back to the seller. 

If you chose to buy from China at your own risk then that was your choice. 

When I buy internationally I always think to myself what are the odds of this being misdescribed and would it be costly to have to return it at my own expense, if the answer is yes then I buy from my own country.

Secondly if you don't want to return the item back to the seller due to the cost then the law of the land does state you are covered for fraud BUT that only applies to merchants that are in the UK. If you want to hire an international lawyer to recoup costs from a merchant in China that is your right, maybe a tad more costly than returning the item though !

[MikeCrossSir]

Kernowlas: What about a Chinese company that holds a Company Number with Companies House and a Cambridge registered address. Surely one should be able to return the item to their Cambridge address rather than to Hong Kong or elsewhere in China.

[kernowlass]

@MikeCrossSir 

Unfortunately not, because Chinese companies send items from depots in most countries but there 'return' depot is China.

Best thing is to check their 'return policy' if they don't state their policy INCLUDING their return address then hit the back button.

[MikeCrossSir]

I value your reply which tells me what I need to know for the future.

I shall continue to use PayPal’s excellent service where I know that I am buying a service or product from a quality organisation who will stand by their advertised conditions of sale. Any organisation unknown to me I will not deal with now that I know that PayPal do not undertake to enforce standards on my behalf. I formerly believed that PayPal provided consumer protection, and it is very helpful to be disabused of this incorrect assumption.

Thank you very much for setting the score straight.