Bad seller, unfair PayPal

[milio21]

Good morning. Unfortunately I am also a victim of PayPal, because I believe there are others. I bought an item from Belgium, I live in Greece, and I paid with PayPal even though I paid more, to have the security that PayPal is supposed to provide. The item arrived broken and the seller would not accept replacement of the item or its broken parts. I opened a case on PayPal, I waited almost a month and they told me that the seller accepts the return after I send the product back at my own expense. However, they did not think that the product weighs about 13 kg and measures 90cm X 20cm X 15cm. This means that the shipping cost on my part is close to 75 euros. And I have to throw these away to get back 160 euros, the money I paid. After all, they tell me throw away 75 euros to get 160. One word fits here for me FRAUD. Where is the security of the money I paid from PayPal? The seller does not provide a warranty for the product. If he only sent the broken parts the cost would be very small. As a seller, he has much better prices on transport. He asked for 30 euros to send the product. Which I paid. Is there a way I can do something?

[kernowlass]

@milio21 

Firstly buyers do not pay anything for buyer protection, it is a given.

Secondly paypal buyer protection is not a 100% coverall so you read up on it so you can risk assess your transactions.

In the event of a dispute you choose your seller and not Paypal so you need to bear in mind possible return trackable costs before you go ahead and buy from that seller / country.

Paypal state this >>
IMPORTANT: You may be required to return the item to the seller or other party we specify as part of the settlement of your claim. PayPal Buyer Protection does not entitle you to reimbursement for the return shipping costs that you may incur.

You also have the option to do a chargeback via your card issuer instead of a Paypal dispute if you funded your Paypal payment via a credit card.

[milio21]

Hi my friend,

as I said seller in the payment procedure clearly added 3% as PayPal fee. Maybe he just asks buyer to pay what the seller needs to pay to PayPal. The thing is that I paid that.

I don`t disagree to return the item but seller should take responsibility also at the shipping cost because the damage wasn`t made by me but from the seller (are you sure it wasn`t broken when he send it even if he didn`t know) or the shipping company (the external box didn`t have any visible damage). In my case I have to take the full responsibility and pay the money to return a broken item, and the seller nothing at all. He will take the item back, replace the broken parts and sell it again at the price he want.

How does PayPal covers me?

Imagine ordering things coming damaged and you have to pay the money to return all back? Do you find it fair?

So loosing 50 present of the money, shipping cost 75 euros to take back 160 euros, seems to you fair? Why PayPal didn`t ask seller to replace the item or the broken parts?

Regards.

[kernowlass]

@milio21 

You didn't need to pay the fee as its against paypal rules for the seller to surcharge a buyer for using paypal.

Whether its fair you have to pay for the return or not is immaterial as it clearly states it is your responsibility in paypals buyer protection policy.

If you don't agree with it then best not buy items from an international seller?

If you bought within your own country and the seller declined return postage costs you probably would have the small claims court or similar to seek redress but you won't have that option for international sales. 

[milio21]

Just a small note because its impossible to agree. I believe you know EU law about buyer protection. So have a look.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm

- I live in Portugal and I bought a camera in Spain. It doesn't work. What should I do?

If you still have the receipt, you can ask to have the camera repaired or replaced. If this is not possible, you should get a refund. If you don't get a satisfactory response from the seller, you can contact your local European Consumer Centre.

- The seller in Spain is ready to repair my faulty camera, but who must pay for shipping it to them?

Within 2 years of purchase, defective products must be repaired or replaced without any cost to the consumer. This includes any shipping costs.

I don`t think that PayPal doesn`t count the EU regulations. 

Anyway I will wait for the case to close and then make an appeal if I say it correctly.

[kernowlass]

@milio21 

What paypal offers you is one thing.

If that fails then by all means go via another route, paypal do not stop you appealing to EU regs, its just not what they can offer you.

[milio21]

I have already started the process through the European Union.

But sorry I didn't understand well you mean PayPal terms don't follow European regulations????

I understood well????

[kernowlass]

@milio21 

Its a bit like having a debit card where mostly you can't do chargebacks and a credit card where you can do chargebacks.

Different payment processors offer different levels of protection but that does not take away your right to take your own private legal action ie small claims court etc against the seller if that level of protection does not get you a refund.

[milio21]

Every company that operates in the European Union is obliged to adapt to European regulations.

I don't think you disagree with that.

PayPal cannot differentiate itself.

Since it undertakes to mediate and resolve such disputes within the European Union, it must adapt to European regulations.

[kernowlass]

@milio21 

Paypal offers 'some' buyer and 'some' seller protection.

They cannot protect both parties on the same transaction.

So if you lose out then you can try your own private legal action.

Try reading paypals user agreement which is legally agreed in every country where they operate and clearly states....

When you buy something from a seller who accepts PayPal, you may be eligible for a refund under PayPal's Buyer Protection program, which terms and conditions are set out in this document and form part of the user agreement.

The protections offered by PayPal under this Buyer Protection Program do not override  any rights that you might have directly against a seller, including, for example, statutory rights to returns or repairs. If an issue arises with a seller you must try to resolve your issue directly with the seller before filing a claim under this Buyer Protection Program. If you are unable to resolve the issue you must choose whether to pursue a claim under this Buyer Protection Program or to pursue a claim with your card issuer or to rely on any other statutory rights that may be available to you.