refund scam

[hussbull]

REFUND SCAM

There is at least one buyer working a refund scam through PayPal.

The scam works like this:

1. First the buyer buys and pays for several items from a seller.

2. He chooses items that are low enough priced so that they not likely be tracked.

3. Then he waits until they are delivered to see if they are tracked.

4. If not, after waiting a while he puts a claim into PayPal saying the items were not delivered.

5. The buyer will not respond to any attempts to communicate with him.

6. In the absence of proof of delivery, PayPal awards him a full refund from your account.

7. By the time you see what is happening and blocked him, the buyer has had quite a few items from you.

8. The buyer may also use more than one eBay ID.

One buyer has scammed me out of over £60.00 for several printer consumable items.

There seems to be no way to get PayPal to look into this!

I would love to post two of this buyer’s eBay IDs here, but suspect that would get my post removed.

Like many, I do not track items below a certain value as the cost adds up and I find adding the cost to the postage puts off bidders.

[amazingcars]

A bit of time has passed since the last postings but I think the subject should be resurected as the problem is getting worse. After being scammed and PayPal refunding the buyer, I decided NOT to sell to any unverified addresses. It's a bit of a pain always having to check PayPal when sending stuff but at least it's something. Since then, I have refunded money (and not sent the goods) to several people here in Australia and, surprise surprise, not a whimper from them. Most of my items are under $10 so postal tracking is out of the question. It is about time PayPal got to grips with what appears to be a growing problem. I am now encouraging buyers to use other forms of payment! Come on, PayPal, get on top of it and support your sellers ... do you remember them? They're the people paying your wages

[JepfZildjian]

this happening to me right now 😞 

here's how the process actually happened, he paid me, the money receiving transaction went on "Completed" on my paypal, gave him the gold, couple of hours later, I got an e-mail that the payment is now on "Held"

he is using different paypal accounts. Now im having a negative balance in my account.

[Enrique89099]

**bleep**

[Drini]

If you read the user terms and agreement about seller protection, it clearly states you have to be able to provide a tracking number where PayPal can see that the item has been deleivered. 

Provide and keep a tracking number for all items you ship or you are taking a big risk. When money is involved always make sure you understand the terms before you take any actions.

If you do not think tracking number is worth the cost to be protected, use another payment method, but if you use something else without a buyer/seller protection you might loose customers.

After a claim is opened you have 10 days to provide the tracking information.

[Mills13]

Rediculous it happened to me and because I have 2 accounts and only see the emails from one. I missed the case being opened and closed! The buyer now has my £200 shoes and my money. I called up claims and PayPal did nothing to help me get it back just because the case was closed. I’m so done with selling on this site

[roddw1]

Me too and if you read my recent (and dreadful) experience on the link below you'll see that it need not necessarily be  scammer. Quite simply, unless you send everything via recorded delivery, Paypal does not give a toss and will 10 times out of 10 side with the buyer. It is fixed and rigged, simpleas that

/t5/Holds-reversals-reserves/Paypal-Dispute-Moderation-a-Loaded-Dice-Sellers-BEWARE/m-p/1338423

In my case I'm not standing still  - I went to the bother of printing out and obtaining a stamped "proof of delivery" for the item in my dispute from my local post office - categoric evidence that the item was posted. Paypal/Ebay have a relationship with the Royal Mail (I now print all my lables via a link to the RM from Ebay), ergo I will be arguing in the small claims court that I honoured my seller obligations to the full and these disputes could easily involve Paypal/Ebay & the Post Office (e.g. how difficult would it be to link your proof of delivery to your ebay account?) . Trading standards will also be made aware. May sound overboard but as a few here have already said, unless you send all your items recorded delivery (which if they are low value will destroy your sales) you are **bleep** when using Paypal as a service and more and more scammers are becoming aware that all they have to do is dispute delivery and hey presto they get YOUR goods free of charge. If one or two of this challenge this formally, Paypal will have to review its "process".

[nazimjamil]

In my occassion, delivery was not the problem - the buyer claimed that the payment was an 'unauthorised transaction' and as a result, held and finally refunded the buyer.

All this happened after I had sent the item, provided eBay message threads and postage proof.

I'm currently trying to have PayPal review the case again, as they have close it but the facts are clearly in my favour, which is why it's so stressful that I have not been protected by their seller policy, or common sense.

What happened:

• Buyer won auction on eBay and paid promptly via PayPal
• Buyer uses eBay messaging system to confirm when I have posted item
• Item shipped to buyer verified address
• PayPal hold payment under flag `Unauthorised transaction`
• Proof of postage and message thread uploaded to case file
• 24 hours later - case closed in favour of buyer

Really hope PayPal start protecting their customers, both buyer and sellers.

[kernowlass]

@nazimjamil

An unauthorised transaction means that an account holders paypal account has been hacked and used without their consent by someone ie your buyer?

If paypal find out that this is the case then the account holder gets his funds back under paypals protection policies BUT you would not lose out either as long as you met all the requirements of seller protection.

When i first read your post you said you had proof of postage? Did you have proof of delivery? Also messages don't count as they could well have been from the scammer.

Your best bet is to go and read up on seller protection and if you think you did meeet all their criteria then phone customer services and ask them to appeal that decision and ask why you were not reimbursed.

[nazimjamil]

I indeed have called customer service and appealed the decision, this pathway is available in the FAQ. Regarding messages not counting, that sounds like your opinion. My payment is a biproduct of an eBay auction, the comms around seller protection on the surface seem safe and simple. However i believe it does not go far enough for the average consumer on the casual selling side. I would describe the messaging as misleading. Ultimately the item is sent to the verified address, if the account holder didn’t place this transaction then they can send the item back.

[kernowlass]

@nazimjamil

Messages count if it was an item not received dispute OR a item received but not as described dispute.

But if its an unauthorised dispute then Ebay messages don't count.

You can believe that or not that is entirely your right.

As for the item being sent to the verified address, when scammers hack and use paypal accounts they 'add' an address to a paypal account and make that one primary so yes you will be sending to the verified address but it would be the scammers. No one would bother going to the trouble of hijacking a paypal account and then ordering something to be sent to the original account holder would they?