New Refund Policy September 2019

[websweeper530]

We're an 18 year customer of PayPal. Received an email from PayPal today about new Refund Policy that denies the seller a return of PayPal Fees collected if sale is cancelled. Went online to chat with them (1st time ever). Her'e a copy of the transcript. Would like thoughts from other members.  

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You are now chatting with Jacqueline

Jacqueline 12:21 PM 9-20-19
Thank you for using PayPal chat. My name is Jackie. How can I help you?
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Tim M 12:21 PM 9-20-19
So, with the new refund policy coming into place will we still get
charged the fees if the order is cancelled?
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Jacqueline 12:21 PM 9-20-19
This is correct.
This is to be in line with industry standards.
Do you have any other questions?
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Tim M 12:25 PM 9-20-19
So, earlier this month we had one of your customers "purchase" a product ,
never paid for it, cancelled the order, and we were charged the fees.
We are in the process of getting a credit for them. Are you really saying we
would be out the 200+ dollars fees if we keep accepting PayPal? If so, is
that even legal?,
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Jacqueline 12:27 PM 9-20-19
I understand the frustration. We are no longer giving back the fees
as the email states that we are sending to all customer for the refunds.
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Tim M 12:28 PM 9-20-19
We accept a few million $ of CC's each year and the "Industry Standard"
is not to keep $ that was not earned.
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Jacqueline 12:30 PM 9-20-19
I understand. You can leave your Feedback on the bottom of the right
hand corner if you would like to submit your concern.
Do you have any other questions?
The fees are used for processing the payment through the banks.
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Tim M 12:32 PM 9-20-19
Did the VC / MC interchange approve this?
They the ones who dictate the rules, not PayPal?
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Jacqueline 12:33 PM 9-20-19
I am sorry. I do not have nay other information to give.
Please use the feedback link for any questions or concerns.
We are not given this information.
These are decisions made from other individuals.
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Tim M 12:35 PM 9-20-19
So, can you provide me the Name & Number of the other "individuals"
that make these decisions? PayPal just got VERY EXPENSIVE to use.
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Jacqueline 12:35 PM 9-20-19
I am sorry. We do not have this information.
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Tim M 12:36 PM 9-20-19
OK, I see.

[sharpiemarker]

@websweeper530 

"So, earlier this month we had one of your customers "purchase" a product ,
never paid for it, cancelled the order, and we were charged the fees."

Something ain't right bout this bit.

Do you use the authorize and capture? And they still keep the fees? I can understand them keeping the fees if payment was actually received by you but if the buyer never paid then how can the funds be received into your account so that PayPal fees can be collected on it to begin with? 🤔

Or are you getting PayPal fees mixed with up eBay fees? PayPal and eBay been separate companies for 4/5+ years now.

[websweeper530]

Here's a copy of the email we received from PayPal Yesterday. (9-20-19)

Dear Tim <removed>,

Earlier this year, we notified you that we were updating our User Agreement to change our refund policy. We want to let you know that the policy change is going into effect beginning on October 11, 2019.

In line with industry practice and according to our updated policy, we will not charge a fee to process refunds, but the fees from the original transaction will not be returned. This policy will not apply to duplicate transactions, voids and most disputed transactions. You can review the PayPal User Agreement for more information on our return policies.

We only adjust our policies when we are confident the changes are fair and aligned with the value that our services provide to your business.

PayPal brings you more than just payment processing – your business has access to our platform’s full suite of tools, products and support built to scale with you, such as customized invoicing to help you get paid sooner, access to business loans, world class fraud monitoring, seller protection for eligible transactions, and business services designed to simplify your day-to-day operations.

PayPal invests in bringing you buyers – with over 268 million active account holders worldwide, PayPal works hard for your business to make sure we continue to bring your buyers the shopping experiences they have grown to associate with our brand. PayPal is the most-used digital wallet** and PayPal shoppers complete their checkout 88% of the time on average, helping you close more sales.+

If you have questions about any of these changes or your account, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with us.

Thank you for being a PayPal customer. We appreciate your business and look forward to continuing to help you grow and succeed in the future.

The team at PayPal

[JFREER]

Just got the  email today about the new rules, I got the same responses word for word  how can they keep doing this between eBay and PayPal their extorting as much money from sellers as they can, now their keeping money for things we're not getting paid for, fees were for selling if we have to return something (forced to, even when no returns is listed)

 there is no sale, no company has ever done this, we have to stop these policies ebay and paypal are using their monopoly to suck us dry. I want to start a petition or call a reporter to complain,twitter even a congressman   I don't have to use this service but have no other choice to sell my items anywhere else all we want is a fair marketplace to do fair business 

:	When you refund a payment the fees you are charged are not sent back. So if you receive a payment and you have a merchant fee of 5.00. Usually if you refund that payment the fee goes back so you are no longer charged for it.
Janette	:	With the new process the 5.00 will not go back. So you will need to refund the full amount minus the fee.
james freer	:	ok i think so if i sell something for 100 and have to pay ebay 5.00 seller fee then buyer wants a refund i only have to return 95?
Janette	:	I am sorry I don't know anything about eBay seller fees. If this was a fee you were charged through PayPal this is correct.
james freer	:	ok i think so these helps the seller then
james freer	:	and ebay will keep the money we have to pay for selling and not rfund to buyers
Janette	:	Actually any fees that are paid are charged to the seller. When a seller refunds anything the fee is still charged to them. If they only have the 95.00 left to refund because of the fee they had to pay. The 5.00 needs to come from the account of the seller. So the seller is actually charged 10.00 if there is a refund because you have to send the full 100.00 back to your buyer.

[V6662]

Exactly.

This refund policy is a massive cash grab from paypal.

I want a chat with them as well, but I knew their answer, as you got -

"This is to be in line with industry standards."

Well my standards are to stand out from the crowd.

Not to follow everyone else.

I run my own business, set my own ethical rules.

Doing business just got a whole lot more expensive.

Because of greed.