Non Mobile (Land-line) Log-In Does Work BUT....

AZ109
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only when Paypal wants it to.

 

I've been locked out of my account by paypal for weeks.  I've been told by CS that I can download the App. to my lap-top (possibly true - but only by using my non-existent mobile.) then verification using my land-line will be possible.

 

Then I get yet another email from paypal , this one with a Clickable link to download the App..  Great I thought, problem solved (at last).  I'm using the lap top > click link > download App. > no more problem . HOORAY.

 

Oh-oh, up comes the second step verification page (the one that's now set up to receive a "Call Me" code to my land-line,  but which always fails to ring every time).  I think to myself -- lets complete this farce yet again, so so click Call Me. 

 

GUESS WHAT.  My land-line rings INSTANTLY > enter code > I'm logged in to my account WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  But then discover that the ONLY way to start the download is to take a screen-shot with (you guessed it)  MY NON-EXISTENT mobile.

 

Sellers on ebay tell me that they have no problem using their land-line for verification codes (once they have given PP their mobile).

When PP thinks I'm going to download their App.  it works perfectly for me.  But five minutes later when I try to log-in without the email link.  It's again inoperative.

 

The truth of the matter is now crystal clear.  Paypal is deliberately withholding any other method of 2Step Verification until they get a mobile number from account holders.  They are deliberately making SCA as inconvenient as possible for any customer without a mobile to the point of making access to accounts impossible.  This is clear discrimination against customers without mobiles. 

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kernowlass
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@AZ109 

 

Yep they clearly state you have to have a mobile phone to access your paypal account.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/psd2-new

 


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AZ109
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The link shows clearly enough that paypal's "Mobile Only" accessibility issues are deliberate policy and not teething troubles or a glitch.  It also shows that PP is clearly in breach of the UK FCA's Guidance, which it recently acknowledged (In the new UK User Agreement) that it is bound by and accepted that it was subject to.

 

It follows that any UK customer of PP who is "inconvenienced" (FCA wording) by this policy has grounds for complaint to the FCA.  I'll be making a complaint (including the link)  and will do so again whenever I'm further inconvenienced. 

 

Thanks for your help. 

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
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@AZ109 

 

Unfortunately Paypal are not regulated by the FCA.

 

 

Paypal (Europe) Ltd – Status – No longer authorised - This is a firm
that can no longer provide regulated products and services, but was
previously authorised by the PRA and/or FCA. This firm was on the register
under the FSA between 13/02/2004 and 04/07/2007. If this isn’t the firm
you’re referring to please let me know.

Paypal (Europe) Ltd is no longer authorised or regulated by us, we
therefore don’t have any supervisory authority over it.

 


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AZ109
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At the foot of this page:  Policy Updates > Effective  Jan. 1, 2021.

 

Paraphrased slightly from memory but the intent is clear.  "Due to the UK leaving the EU PP has created a UA that applies to the UK, Gibraltar, Channel Isles, IoM.  From Jan 1. PP will be deemed to be authorised and regulated by the FCA".

 

It goes on to say that PP has improved its complaints procedure (about bloody time IMO) and if a user makes a formal complaint and is unsatisfied by the way PP handles it, they (PP) acknowledges their right to proceed to FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service) with their case (and the possibility of a compensation claim).

 

There is anecdotal evidence on the ebay boards that one seller there has already been awarded compensation against PP's denial of access policy to non-mobile using customers.   PP  having taken them to court for non-payment of some fee or charge, while at the same time denying them access to the account (No mobile phone), making it impossible to pay the bill.  The FCA or the Ombudsman fast-tracked their complaint and awarded judgement and compensation to them.

 

For your convenience I'll also add a quote from www.fca.org.uk.  Re. PSD2 Regulations SCA first published 2/9/19.

"....we expect firms to develop SCA solutions that work for ALL groups of consumers...... THIS INCLUDES METHODS THAT DO NOT RELY ON MOBILE PHONES."

 and

"Specifically we (FCA) expect... firms not to act outside the agreed industry delivery plan in ways that cause UNNECESSARY PROBLEMS FOR CONSUMERS OR MERCHANTS."

 

I cannot see how PP randomly denying access to customers accounts because of their inability to receive mobile text messages, disabling the land-line method of verification and pressurising every account holder with the constant "Go and buy a mobile" message" complies with the above guidance.

 

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@AZ109 

 

Yep, checked UK user agreement and found this...

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

 

PayPal is deemed authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. The nature and extent of consumer protections may differ from those for firms based in the UK. Details of the Temporary Permissions Regime, which allows EEA-based firms to operate in the UK for a limited period while seeking full authorisation, are available on the Financial Conduct Authority’s website.

 

 

 

So they are allowed to differ in normal UK companies regulations which is why they can tell you to access your account via a phone. They have enough lawyers to check all these things before implementing policy. 


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GosportNancy
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I have been having similar issues myself. It started when I realised I'd forgotten to update my mobile number but couldn't change it as 1. The code for verification would be sent to my old number 2, The 'call me' option for my landline doesn't work as the phone doesn't ring.

 

I trade on a whole bunch of sites but have now had to close some of the accounts as some sites only accept Paypal. I have now removed Paypal options from all my income streams and focus on sites that don't insist I use Paypal. I would love to be Paypal free but can't log in to close my account

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AZ109
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@kernowlass wrote:

@AZ109 

 

Yep, checked UK user agreement and found this...

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

 

PayPal is deemed authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. The nature and extent of consumer protections may differ from those for firms based in the UK. Details of the Temporary Permissions Regime, which allows EEA-based firms to operate in the UK for a limited period while seeking full authorisation, are available on the Financial Conduct Authority’s website.

 

 

 

So they are allowed to differ in normal UK companies regulations which is why they can tell you to access your account via a phone. They have enough lawyers to check all these things before implementing policy. 


The sentence that you highlight is one of those Delphic pronouncements that PP is rather prone to,  so enigmatic that it could mean almost anything.  Two different qualifications in one sentence, plus a "may" to me suggests someone is trying hard to cloud the issue and claim privileges it isn't sure of (to put it politely). 

 

If, as the last sentence seems to be saying that PP UK is operating under a temporary licence, is this attempt to beat everyone into line a crude attempt to present the FCA with a fait accompli before they become fully licenced and fully regulated by the FCA?

 

Tech Corps. all employ brigades of lawyers.  As you say their job is to check things before implementation.  But just as much as checking the legality, they are also paid to see how far they can stretch the law before they break it.

 

The intent of the FCA Guidelines is to ensure that no section of the UK population is denied access to financial services.  PP's policy is just as clearly designed to do just that.  To deny the use of one of the largest on-line payment processors to a significant number of UK citizens.

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AZ109
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Also, if paypal is so sure that it can ignore the FCA Guidelines, why has it bothered to create a land-line alternative to text messages for mobiles at all??

 

The fact that it appears on so many account holders screens, but never rings the phone unless paypal thinks it might get another mobile number by allowing it to work perfectly for a few minutes.  But then, five minutes later, it won't work again making it impossible to access the account without a mobile.  That just shows that  to do anything but hand over a mobile number, paypal has disabled the alternative.

 

Perhaps someone from PP could stir themselves and explain this subterfuge?

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