Please Help I Have Proof The Item Was Received And He Still Got Refunded !!

[specter4]

7/31 Payment received $450
8/2 Item shipped USPS with $400 insurance, payment was sent f&f, received no address from his payment. Had to confirm via text.
8/7 ITEM DELIVERED

8/8 Paypal claim started
8/15 Submitted tracking and proof of contact and delivery, BUYER STATING ITEM RECEIVED and was stolen
8/19 Item Not Received Case resolved in favor of THE BUYER
8/19 Contacted Paypal management
8/19 Case Reopened, told I can submit additional info, like screenshots of the address he sent me and that he attempted to even get the case resolved in my favor
8/19 Still unable to submit any further info

Kim was very helpful but I believe I reached the limit of her abilities here. PLEASE HELP. I am out $400 of product and $450 cash. Plus a $15 dispute fee. I also need to submit additional screenshots of him sending his address and claiming to have it resolved in my favor to my case ID PP-D-122294434 But there is nowhere to do so. Attached is all the evidence PLEASE HELP

[kernowlass]

@jerryab2 

Try reading the original posters post, as this is his thread.

Try the second line where he says the payment was sent f/f ie FRIENDS/FAMILY.

So the correct advice given by me is that he has 0 seller protection for that sort of payment and I copied you in as your advice was wrong so you were not giving the advice as you quoted ie

The purpose of *this site* is to provide potential help--from many others with more relevant/applicable knowledge and experience.

Your advice was no help as it would not affect any payment refunded to the buyer when the seller negated their seller protection.

[specter4]

Okay, You seem to have some sway here, do you believe this should be resolved in my favor? Or Do I Truly Deserve To Lose $450 + $400 product

[kernowlass]

@specter4 

I have no more sway than you do.

Sadly as I said you have 0 seller protection for friends/family payments if the buyer wins a chargeback or an unauthorised dispute.

1. They can't open a paypal dispute for non receipt of item as they do not have any buyer protection for a friends /family payment.

2. They can't open a paypal dispute for item received but not as described for the same reason.

3. They can open and may win a dispute for an unauthorised transaction as that is saying they were hacked and if paypal checks IP addresses / devices and agrees with them then they get their money back BUT you would not get reimbursed by paypal as you would have 0 seller protection because you accepted a gift payment.

4. They can open and may win a chargeback as that is done directly via their card issuer if they funded their paypal payment that way but again you would have 0 seller protection to be reimbursed for the same reason.

[specter4]

1. i have proof the address he sent me is where i sent it 2. i was denied my claim due to ‘unverifiable address’ after no attempted contact from paypal and a paypal agent purposely changed my claim to item not received since that was THE only way to submit tracking and my own info

[kernowlass]

@specter4 

For seller protection you have to send to the paypal registered address of  the buyer at the time of payment.

The address was not on the payment as you were not paid, you were sent a gift of money using the friends/family option.

So it wouldn't matter if the item was proven as delivered or not because the buyer can file a dispute for unauthorised or do a chargeback and they would win as you had 0 seller protection.

I have already explained it in detail in earlier posts.

If you don't sell using goods and services then you negate your seller protection.

[specter4]

I Have Heard You Say This Four Times Now. Please Reply To This Now. Regardless Of Seller Protection Why Ignore Blatant Evidence

[jerryab2]

Aug 20 (quoting  you):

"A buyer would not be able to open a Paypal dispute for non-receipt of item OR item not as described as they would have no Paypal buyer protection."

So how did the buyer open and win a Paypal dispute?

The buyer did acknowledge, in writing, where to send the package. Otherwise, the shipper/seller has no destination to send it in the first place.

I did not know what the f&f term meant. Is there a notice from the buyer specifying the missing info? Yes, we do. Buyer admits it.

What we do know is the essential information:

1. The package was sent AND delivered to the correct address because the buyer stated that fact in his message.

2. The package was stolen by a porch pirate, with the theft witnessed by a neighbor of the buyer. A stated fact by buyer in message.

3. Buyer does NOT state the package was delivered to the wrong address OR improperly delivered. NOT stated by buyer anywhere.

4. The f&f issue is irrelevant. This does not involve a lost/missing package. It is a documented theft from the buyer's residence. NOT covered by Paypal.

[kernowlass]

@jerryab2 

You really don't read well do you.

A buyer can't open a Paypal dispute for non receipt or item not as described HOWEVER they can open a dispute for unauthorised OR a chargeback via their card issuer directly, in which case the card issuer makes all the decisions and all paypal can do is pass on any information to the card issuer on the buyers behalf.

If you didn't understand what f/f meant then best to find out and not post incorrect advice.

The f/f is NOT irrelevant as it negated totally the sellers paypal protection.

The following items or transactions are not eligible for PayPal’s Seller Protection program:

• Real estate, including residential property
• Vehicles, including, but not limited to, motor vehicles, motorcycles, recreational vehicles, aircraft and boats, except for personally portable light vehicles used for recreational purposes like bicycles and wheeled hoverboards
• Businesses (buying or investing in a business)
• Industrial machinery used in manufacturing
• Payments equivalent to cash, including stored value items such as gift cards and pre-paid cards
• Payments made in respect of gold (whether in physical form or in exchange-traded form)
• Financial products or investments of any kind
• Gambling, gaming, and/or any other activities with an entry fee and a prize
• Donations, including payments received as crowdfunding or crowdlending
• Payments to a state-run body (except for state-owned enterprises), a government agency, or to third-party collecting payment on behalf of a state-run body or government agency
• Payments to any bill payment service
• Items where the buyer claims (either with us or their card issuer) that the item you sent isn’t what was ordered (referred to as a Significantly Not as Described claim)
• Physical, tangible items delivered in person, including in connection with a payment made in your physical store, unless the buyer paid for the transaction in person using PayPal’s goods and services QR code
• Anything PayPal determines, in its sole discretion, is prohibited by this user agreement or PayPal’s Acceptable Use Policy, even if the transaction is initially marked as “eligible” or “partially eligible” on the Transaction Details page
• Payments made using PayPal Payouts (formerly Mass Pay)
• Personal payments including a payment sent using PayPal’s friends and family functionality
• Payments not processed through a buyer’s PayPal account, unless you receive PayPal Guest Checkout transactions and your business account is registered in the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, Canada, Brazil, or Mexico
• Items sent after PayPal advised you not to release the item

[specter4]

the only thing i am getting from your extremely long winded and usually condescending replies is that paypal's seller protection is actually just plausible deniability of blatant evidence presented to them.

[kernowlass]

@specter4 

Well most folks clearly understand that they are not allowed to sell and accept friends/family payments and if they do then they negate their seller protection.

Sorry to hear you are one of those that can't understand a clear post citing a part of the user agreement for seller protection.

Its pretty easy and not rocket science but hey ho never mind.