PAYPAL STOLE FROM ME!!!

[Hotcurry]

I’ve been selling items on eBay since 2002 without issue, but back in October 2019 I sold an iPhone 8 to a buyer in Armenia and experienced my first issue. I’d never sold to Armenia before, but the buyer had many transactions and I figured it would be fine. It was not fine. The buyer requested I send the item to an airport in the Armenia capital via USPS. I thought this was odd, but figured he had good reviews and was excellent at communicating with me, so I should be fine. What I learned after sending the package is there is no tracking of packages within the country of Armenia, no matter what class of mail you purchase. A month after sending the item the buyer left an expletive laden message in my inbox accusing me of being a thief. It was Thanksgiving and I was out of town, but I tried to calm him down saying I would do my best to get to the bottom of where the package was. But before I could even call the post office he had already started a claim against me and left several more vile and accusatory messages in my inbox. This guy went from pleasant to lunatic in zero seconds. I immediately contacted eBay who informed me this is a scam perpetrated by buyers who live in places where they know packages cannot be tracked. They order electronics, report them as missing then keep the electronics AND your money. eBay took about an hour to research the case and sided in my favor. I thought the whole mess was done but Paypal froze my account and said I had no buyer protection. They accused me of being a fraudulent buyer even though eBay sided with me!! They stole $268 from my account and handed it over to this thief!!! I quickly sent Paypal proof of my shipment along with the customs form and tracking number. But paypal contends that if the package doesn’t show as delivered, they will ALWAYS side with the buyer and the seller is just out of luck. I’m livid. I did everything by the books. I sent the item via the shipping method requested by the seller. I had what I thought was a viable tracking number. But Paypal is complicit in defrauding it’s users. They cannot get it through their heads that Armenia has no postal tracking system and my item will NEVER show as delivered. By siding against me, they’re allowing this thief to continue to rip people off and steal their money. I’ve been appealing their decision since November but they closed my case today and took my cash. Paypal is run by liars, thieves and degenerates who are unwilling to protect sellers against criminals. I was passed around to a dozen customer service people who were all zero help and downright complicit in stealing from me. How can I get my money back? I’m disabled and doing my best to keep a roof over my head. I know $268 is not a lot to some, but I need this money desperately. I’m doing everything I can to eek out an honest living. It’s devastating when a company like Paypal calls me a crook and takes my money when I’m the one being taken advantage of. What can I do?

[sharpiemarker]

@Hotcurry 

Sorry, as seller, once you found out there is no tracking available, you do an about face, taking your package home or didn't ship at all. Contact the buyer explaining the situation, refunded and canceled eBay order claiming problem with buyer address to avoid a defect on your eBay account to sell your phone another day. You just though it was all fine. It wasn't. It wasn't fine the way you thought. People always ASSUME there is PayPal protection, no, it has its limitations and eligibility requirements. According to seller protection, you NEED proof of delivery via tracking number, otherwise you are not eligible for PayPal seller protection. Not PayPal's fault you don't do due dlilgence. Never take any chances, no matter what the buyer's feedback is.

I don't ship anywhere that has no tracking and/or can't get insurance of some kind. Nothing you can do but all is not lost, this is paid tuition on a lesson learned.

I'll tell you another thing, if buyer lost PayPal case, they can still file a credit card chargeback and you'll be charged a chargeback fee of $20 on top of the disputed amount and most likely the buyer will win because the credit card decides, not PayPal.

[Enzo1110555]

First you need to take a deep breath and cool down ... ( in my short span as a seller and now merchant ). 

this is actually my fisrtnight on the forum but i had glanced thru and believe i could share my knowledge to help

[Enzo1110555]

fellow merchant .. in reading your encounter  ( i understand fully understand your frustration  ... ).let me share my experience and how i cope with "those monkeys" handling our issues .  First let us identify who are we really dealing with in your phone in to eBay or write in or whatsoever. The Act already committed , all you want to achieve his to regain your product or the sums payment.  to achieve that we need to cool down, without anger inform to the call in receiver , your objective of call and what you wish for tem to do for you ( almost like giving an instruction manner .. ) that's it for the 1st call in ( but remember to ask for name and a case Number on your report, which normally should be smooth  if you go in this way. EBAY & PAYPAL will finger point to each other if they fell like it and play you like a pingpong if you go aggressive with them ( but having said that we must be fair, these customer service officers do not deserve to that the heat of your warth. so socially that's wrong of us . i will highlight to you a fews enario of what will happen if you choose to express some heat , a) they can pretend that there is a drop call and hanguo (PayPal regulation  to their customer service team, is that they are not allowed to hang-up before the customer does. but yet they can do it. b) your whole night of yelling and complaining goes to nothing (you may think there is phone recording ,think again - they already knew they could get away with these because the calls in ,are auto routed. so they claim (This part i wish to elaborate because as much as they say it is so , it is not. ) if you wish to speak to a particular officer in concern, they will use this excuse but thru my accumulated experience of at least 4 calls to either ebay or paypal. i can conclude their call center is not that Large they try to make you think it is. most of time, you will reach either India call center or philippine call center (and it is a designated small group in accordance to your sector). You will not know who they are but they know who you are and lie i said they could play u like a ping pong or a barbie doll to then mood and liking and you cant do anything about it _ so DONT LAND yourself in that situation. Vice Versa dont take sweet words from them as it holds no weight in your claims. because they could say that they understand they care they feell  but when the next phone rings it is another matter  ...

ok when the above is understood , then i will proceed to explain eBay PayPal relationship and as merchant where we stand. advantage goes to Buyer first. as a online merchant we must accept this. i can because i buy more then i sell so i enjoy shopping on ebay because there is this extra care. So as Merchant we must understand this is also a way of sales marketing benefiting us. So to carry on, aBuyer has 30days on eBay to lay claim . tis claims do not have to be reasonable . but Buyer still has rights to reject and ask for refund and it will award in their favor but to protect ourselves we can layout our ground rules of return . ( forget about our initial  listing states No return . it hates no weight). 1st. as Ebay Merchant. we are allocated 12 times of Label returns not exceeding USD$30 or USD$35, when a customer demands are not justify. ebay will side to us and allow us to use this sums for return shipping label so we can get our goods back. process the return label we can layout a time line which buyer must follow if excceding this time line. we can refile against the buyer. when the product return is not send and tempered we can also open a claim against buyer ..

so above is the 30days with ebay. so if you encounter that you can win and explain your case well and lost the case. Don't worry you can still take u the case with paypal undersellers protection ( there is a 6mths period to do so. even if you are unlucky to lost your case in PayPal to and there state no more appeal against a close resolution case - that's not true. if one has been cheated or scam , maybe it be seller to buyer or buyer to seller. you can keep on going until truth prevails . ( that is of course provided that wwe did not overlooked and void our own insurance protection ).  i browse thru what you said about a place "without tracking" i have doubts above this .. so if you need more help to retrieve your lost , you can buzz me and i will guide you. ibut now i m tired from this typing . i have decided to use my knowledge to help the community in this forum. because Paypal is very useful to aide us in our online business. it just those monkeys in the call center that are toying with the Brand and cause confusion to us against the system btw i am not siding Paypal. i just filed a police report to my case this afternoon . LOL