chargeback

[newpawta]

Seems this is happening WAY too much - scammers are obviously onto the method. Make a few reputable purchases on ebay.   Then, on a another purchase, do a chargeback and keep the merchandise. I sold some champagne flutes. Paid extra for expedited shipping, insurance and delivery conf. as buyer was "confused" by ship costs.   Did everything "by the book" -  Payment thru PayPal.   Shipped to confirmed address. USPS confirmed delivery. Buyer claimed she did not get item and refused to help locate; wanted me to deal with local PO, which I did (gotta keep those buyers happy and preserve the FB!).    I suspected from beginning she was lying. PO carrier claimed to remember delivering the pkg, which had "fragile" stickers all over it.  Buyer then, instead of filing Item-Not-Received case, did a chargeback with her CC.   PayPal tells me they cannot offer me seller protection bc the buyer supposedly filed case as "Item damaged or significantly not as described".    I submitted all the evidence, but of course CC found in favor of their client, even though PayPal claims to have fought for me.   Of course, I have no means of confirming any of this as PayPal cannot release "confidential" info without a subpoena.   I thought that seller protection meant I would be reimbursed if I could prove my case.   Regardless of what the CC made them do (take the sale $ back), I would have thought that PayPal would conduct its own investigation and see thru the evidence that the buyer could not possibly have not received the item AND have received it not-as-described!    Buyer continues to insist (in ebay messages, no less) that she DID NOT receive it! So OF COURSE she cannot return it to me, right?   I thought that PayPal would see that and decide which of us was lying, and who should compensate whom from one PayPal acc't to another.    Or actually just REIMBURSE me for being "taken" by another member and have her acc't suspended!     But they don't even go so far as to automatically pull the eBay messages - I had to copy and paste all of them myself to submit as evidence - all for naught.

 So now, I am out:

The item I sold,    the sale $,     the $ I paid for expedited shipping, insurance and delivery conf.,    ebay and Paypal fees,    a special chargeback fee,    and countless (I estimate a total of a couple/few days' worth) hours of time trying NOT to get **bleep**ed by this lying, cheating, stealing buyer!!  TO NO AVAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  But how do I know WHO is lying - the PO carrier who may have scanned, then "pocketed" the goods?  The buyer who claims she did not receive, and claims that's what she told the CC in her case?  PayPal, which claims the buyer filed as "not-as-described", so they don't have to cover me?  SOMEONE is LYING, and I am the one paying the price!!!!!!!

[Millstone]

The exact same thing has happened to me! Sellers beware!!! I sold an item, buyer files a 'chargeback' with her credit card company stating  that I sold her and item that was 'Significantly not as described'.  I filed all the proper documentation with pay-pal (and I had good documentation), received the same form letters and of course pay-pal finds in favor of the buyer. I know, for a fact that  with the evidence I sent pay-pal that there is no way they could of reviewed it and then found in favor of the buyer. So now, the buyer still has the merchandise,(its part of the scam) I incurred pay-pal fees (in addition to the selling fees), all total I lost over $400. What does pay-pal say when I called to inquire?!!! you should just figure this in with your profits/losses. It is a chance you take when you take credit cards!!!  I think it is interesting that pay-pal is now offering buyer protection and advertising in big,bold print!!!! Of course they are because the buyer is always right....besides they can tack on more fees to the seller while investigating!SO SELLERS BEWARE OF THE LATEST SCAM!!!!!! :smileymad

[gearsmithy]

This happened to me.  I sold a phone on ebay, buyer initiated a SNAD claim against me in paypal (he claimed that the phone was stolen by UPS and even sent photos of a damaged box without phone inside).  I won the Paypal dispute by providing 45 pages of emails, numerous photographs proving that the item was shipped as described through UPS and confirmed delivery to the a confirmed address.  But I lost the chargeback why?? because the BUYER calls the shots in this game.   Even though paypal's web page states the following:

"Chargeback coverage with PayPal Dispute Resolution.
If you resolve a dispute through the Resolution Center, Paypal will protect you 100% against any future claim, chargeback or bank reversal the buyer may file for that transaction."

You can read this here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/securitycenter/sell/ChargebackGuide3-outside

You see folks, PAYPAL AND THE CC COMPANIES RELY UPON THE BUYER TO DETERMINE THE TYPE OF DISPUTE, in my case it clearly should've been an "item not recieved" dispute, but my buyer classified it as a SNAD (significant not as described), which is not covered by "Seller Protection".  So as a seller, you have zero chance of winning in the end because PayPal's Seller Protection Policy does not cover SNAD claims or chargebacks, and the BUYER gets to classify the dispute.

HERE'S HOW THE SCAM WORKS, find a buyer and win an action, pay with your credit card via paypal.  When you get the merchandise initiate a SNAD paypal dispute and a chargeback through your CC company.  You may win or lose the paypal dispute, but it doesn't matter, the CC company will still process the chargeback and since you initiated the dispute as SNAD the seller is not covered by PayPal's "Seller Protection Policy."  Voila, now you've got the merchanidise AND the money. 

HAVE AT IT FOLKS!!!!

[newpawta]

...and it STILL hurts to think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jasonwentcrazy]

I am just furious about this and I am enduring this just now. Same story basically. As it stands the money that was in the account has been taken and the balance is listed as an amount that we still owe. The buyer kept insisting I use his personal shipping account to send the item and I saw that was something that killed the PayPal seller protection. So I followed that provision and still they take the money. [Or sit by and watch apathetically as the credit card company steals from me.]

What crap. Seriously. It's basically robbery and I hope PayPal will help but I'm getting this sinking feeling that I'm **bleep**ed. I'm out the items I sent and I'm the one that has to pay for the pleasure of losing them to a thief.

I guess the world just got a whole lot bigger now because of this and I'm pretty sure I'm not dealing with anybody ever again via PayPal.