I'm considering firing Paypal as a payment processor, because of ONE webpage

[DexSinister]

I like Paypal. I've been using them as a payment processor on my websites for over a year now.

BUT, I've become aware that I'm losing more in sales per month than it would cost me to get a merchant account, because of Paypal's insistence on putting a single confusing webpage in the way of my customer's credit card payments.

Usually, I just lose sales - as someone who is confused and scared away by this webpage generally loses interest and momentum in the sale and is no longer interested in the purchase.

Because my website gathers sales info before transferring to Paypal, I can tell the sales I lose to Paypal. I get a notice of sale, and then "Payment completed: No". When I contact them and ask, the answer is always exactly the same:

"There was no option to pay by credit card, only by Paypal, and I don't have a Paypal account, so I didn't complete the sale."

What do customers mean when they say that? They mean that they've gotten to this screen, and been confused by the obvious obfuscation in the design of the page:

Yes, I'm aware that there is tiny text, with an even tinier link that says "Don't have a Paypal account? Use your credit card or bank balance (where available) Continue".

But, time, after time, after time, paying customers, who are attempting to buy from me and generate fees for Paypal only see this as a part of the "Paypal is the swellest company in the universe" verbiage, utterly fail to see the tiny 8-character link, and stop the payment process cold because they do not possess a Paypal account.

Just this evening, I received an email from a customer - a journalist for a major newspaper - who wrote me:

"I tried to order, but PayPal was the only way offered to pay for it. 

I'd rather just send a money order, if that would work.  Otherwise I need to use a credit card.  Please let me know if a money order will do."

Frankly, I don't care if Paypal thinks it needs to tell people that they can "use their creditcard without exposing your credit card number to merchants" - because Paypal can't do that if it confuses the customers and fails to collect the card number in the first place.

Since there is no place, as far as I can tell, where someone can sign up for Paypal on that page, if that page confuses customers and scares them away, it is totally useless. And it is costing me upwards of $50-$100 in lost sales each and every month!

What do I want the page where my customers land, intending to enter their credit card information (or to sign into Paypal if they have an account) to look like? That's easy! I want it to look like the exact screen that they actually get to if and only if they get past the one that they obviously don't read and which confuses them.

I want them to land on the screen that results from clicking the "continue" link! This one:

Why is this difficult? If the statement "Paypal securely processes Payments for X Corp. You can finish your payment in a few clicks" is important, it would easily fit on that page. That one statement is the only thing that is not accessible on the second page, which is on the first.

Please fix this, and stop chasing away customers who are trying to make payments that earn Paypal its revenue!

[DexSinister]

Well, yes and no. Obviously, with the payment embedded directly, the clumsy interface would not be a problem.

OTOH, many beginning merchants have no idea that signing up for the Pro level not only necessitates paying the monthly fee, but requires YOU, not Paypal to safely store all of your customer's information collected during the payment process.

There can be significant costs to maintaining the necessary data security required by law - so it depends on one's relative size, and the manner in which one's website is set up, as to whether this is an economically viable choice.

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@mickeyren wrote:

would using  Website Payments Pro solve the problem here? this way you guys can direclty embed the payment processing at your site?

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[TimWint]

Incredibly well put. PayPal has some SERIOUS user interface issues and does not seem to be aware of it. I have been looking for the past 20 minutes for a way to cancel a subscription I no longer need and just stumbled on to this thread, but this is typical.

I have a membership site for which I wanted to install a single payment subscription button. It took me a week. There are no options for this. If you don't want to set up recurring payments, you have to dig into the code and set a bunch of variables and then just hope it's OK because if you try to go through the "sandbox" testing fiasco, that's another ordeal. PayPal has a pdf document that should be able to explain all of this but it's a collection of links to links to links that will just drive you insane.  

PayPal: YOU CAN DO BETTER.

[DexSinister]

LOL on the subscription cancellation - that was recently obfuscated even more throughly than it was previously.

Last time I tried to find that, it now required searching for the transaction (as if their search feature worked)  and only being able to cancel the subscription of one could manage to remember enough of the details to find the transaction through a search. <thorws up hands>

I am confused as to the single payment subscription, though. If this is totally non-recurring, is it not in fact exactly like a sale, and that is what you want to do? I'd be making a "sale" of one subscription payment with the buy now button generator, not mucking about with non-recuring subscriptions.

OTOH, as long as you've done it that way, you could take advantage of the subscription option of a "trial" period, which would probably drive more sales without significantly impacting refund requests. Just a thought off the top of my head.

Dex

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@TimWint wrote:

Incredibly well put. PayPal has some SERIOUS user interface issues and does not seem to be aware of it. I have been looking for the past 20 minutes for a way to cancel a subscription I no longer need and just stumbled on to this thread, but this is typical.

I have a membership site for which I wanted to install a single payment subscription button. It took me a week. There are no options for this. If you don't want to set up recurring payments, you have to dig into the code and set a bunch of variables and then just hope it's OK because if you try to go through the "sandbox" testing fiasco, that's another ordeal. PayPal has a pdf document that should be able to explain all of this but it's a collection of links to links to links that will just drive you insane.  

PayPal: YOU CAN DO BETTER.

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[ConfusedCustomr]

Maybe someone here can help, because PayPal will not.  A few days ago, I bought I  bought  several  DVDs  from  a  vendor  through  PayPal.   I  did  not  log  into  my  account  to  do  it.   I actually found the link with the small type that you refer to on the first page and used it.  My question to PayPal, which I cannot get answered, is:  "Did  the  vendor  receive  my  credit card  information?"  
 
The  reason  I  asked  was  that  I  later  googled  the  vendor  (an individual) and  he  has  been  accused  in  an  online  forum  of  running  scams  to  defraud  women through  social  dating  sites.   Note:   I  did  NOT  see  anything  indicating  that  he  was  found guilty of anything.   Also,  the  transaction  with  me  was  for buying  DVDs  that  he  personally  created  and  undoubtedly  CAN  deliver.   I  just  ordered  a few days ago,  so  there  is  NO  INDICATION  AT THIS TIME  of  vendor fraud  in  my  transaction.   
 
Still,  given  the  accusations  against  him,  I  will  be  very  worried  if  he  has  my  card  information.

I have tried the online help option:  no answer.  I have tried sending an e-mail to customer service;  they responded by advising me how to dispute a charge or file a claim against the vendor even though I told them in all capital letters that "
 there  is  NO  INDICATION  AT THIS TIME  of  vendor fraud in  my  transaction."   

Searching the forum led me to this string.  So, can any vendors tell me:  if I pay by hitting the little link described in the first message in this string, does the merchant get my card information?

[DexSinister]

Nope - we never see it. It stays within Paypal. Couldn't get it if we wanted to. We simply receive a notice of payment with your shipping info.

Basically, as sellers, we see the same information regardless of whether you sign in or just enter the CC info.

Dex

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@ConfusedCustomr wrote:

My question to PayPal, which I cannot get answered, is:  "Did  the  vendor  receive  my  credit card  information?"  
 
Still,  given  the  accusations  against  him,  I  will  be  very  worried  if  he  has  my  card  information.

 ...can any vendors tell me:  if I pay by hitting the little link described in the first message in this string, does the merchant get my card information?

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[austin965]

What are others alternatives to Paypal? Is there anything better or more convenient?

[DexSinister]

"Better" is quite relative. There are many merchant accounts available out there - most come with a variety of interestingly hidden fees, so that it is quite difficult to accurately judge their actual cost. Both Amazon and Google have checkouts, but both requirte the customer to establish or already have an Amazon/Google payments account. There are a couple of accepted-by-eBay payment processors which do similar things.

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@austin965 wrote:

What are others alternatives to Paypal? Is there anything better or more convenient?

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[Capt_Joe]

I Agree 100% as well.

My losses have topped $10,000! Get a clue PayPal

[DexSinister]

Amusingly, I was looking over this page of instructions on placing Paypal Express buttons and I noticed these tips. How amusing and ironic is this???:

• Create checkout pages that are uncluttered and free from visual distractions.
  
• Keep the checkout flow to as few pages as possible.
• Be sure that the PayPal Express Checkout button is clickable,and all PayPal buttons and images are used for the purpose in which they were intended.
• Do not use a Preview button when the next page is actually a purchase.
• Avoid using warning or legal text as part of the primary checkout experience.
• Do not alter, recolor, or resize the PayPal Express Checkout button, or add text around the PayPal checkout button.

[Edited to correct the six runtogetherwords left by whoever "edited" the page, lol]

[GrampsRR]

I appreciate all the details and work-arounds the previous posts have provided.  I just opened an account with Google Checkout.  We'll see how much better it is over the next few months.  Sorry PayPal, but things have gotten harder, not easier with you.