I'm considering firing Paypal as a payment processor, because of ONE webpage

[DexSinister]

I like Paypal. I've been using them as a payment processor on my websites for over a year now.

BUT, I've become aware that I'm losing more in sales per month than it would cost me to get a merchant account, because of Paypal's insistence on putting a single confusing webpage in the way of my customer's credit card payments.

Usually, I just lose sales - as someone who is confused and scared away by this webpage generally loses interest and momentum in the sale and is no longer interested in the purchase.

Because my website gathers sales info before transferring to Paypal, I can tell the sales I lose to Paypal. I get a notice of sale, and then "Payment completed: No". When I contact them and ask, the answer is always exactly the same:

"There was no option to pay by credit card, only by Paypal, and I don't have a Paypal account, so I didn't complete the sale."

What do customers mean when they say that? They mean that they've gotten to this screen, and been confused by the obvious obfuscation in the design of the page:

Yes, I'm aware that there is tiny text, with an even tinier link that says "Don't have a Paypal account? Use your credit card or bank balance (where available) Continue".

But, time, after time, after time, paying customers, who are attempting to buy from me and generate fees for Paypal only see this as a part of the "Paypal is the swellest company in the universe" verbiage, utterly fail to see the tiny 8-character link, and stop the payment process cold because they do not possess a Paypal account.

Just this evening, I received an email from a customer - a journalist for a major newspaper - who wrote me:

"I tried to order, but PayPal was the only way offered to pay for it. 

I'd rather just send a money order, if that would work.  Otherwise I need to use a credit card.  Please let me know if a money order will do."

Frankly, I don't care if Paypal thinks it needs to tell people that they can "use their creditcard without exposing your credit card number to merchants" - because Paypal can't do that if it confuses the customers and fails to collect the card number in the first place.

Since there is no place, as far as I can tell, where someone can sign up for Paypal on that page, if that page confuses customers and scares them away, it is totally useless. And it is costing me upwards of $50-$100 in lost sales each and every month!

What do I want the page where my customers land, intending to enter their credit card information (or to sign into Paypal if they have an account) to look like? That's easy! I want it to look like the exact screen that they actually get to if and only if they get past the one that they obviously don't read and which confuses them.

I want them to land on the screen that results from clicking the "continue" link! This one:

Why is this difficult? If the statement "Paypal securely processes Payments for X Corp. You can finish your payment in a few clicks" is important, it would easily fit on that page. That one statement is the only thing that is not accessible on the second page, which is on the first.

Please fix this, and stop chasing away customers who are trying to make payments that earn Paypal its revenue!

[ebfinster]

If you are considering switching to a regular merchant account and you are classified as MOTO (maill order/telephone order) keep in mind.

You will need a gateway (like authorize.net) which will often include a setup fee (sometimes waved) and a monthly fee.  You will need a merchant account for Visa/MC, another account for Amex, and other accounts for other types of cards you want to accept.  There is no guarantee that any or all of them will give you an account.

Depending on your volume and the type of cards you process, your merchant rates could very well be higher than PayPal.   One big difference between PayPal and merchant accounts is that with PayPal the fees at least are pretty straight forward and you can see what they charged you for any particular transaction.  With a merchant account, (V/M especially)  they obfuscate this.  You get a base rate and then there are all sorts of additional fees and rate additions based on different classifciations of credit cards.  Non of this is reported on a per transaction basis, rather its reported on a  batch basis, so its almost impossible to figure out exactly how much you were charged for any specific transaction.

With a merchant account you will also very likely be subject to pci-dss certification costs and penalties.  Paypal doesn't seem to be as stringent on this at this point.  You can avoid some of this for a merchant account by going old school and getting a card swipe machine that goes through a phone line and punching the card numbers in on the machine, but that has its own set of expenses.

[the-gourmet]

There are always going to be expenses associated with taking credit cards.  The issue for me was the rolling reserve which would never stop rolling, no matter how long I kept their virtual terminal.  I look at batches from our credit card processor at work if I need to drill down to one specific transaction.  Otherwise, reviewing their monthly statement tells me how many transactions were qualified, mid-qualified, non-qualified, business, or debit cards.  So the information is there.  In the end it does me no good to know if they took a quarter or twenty five bucks.  What matters is that they are sitting on my money for 3 months, when there are other processors out there like Google, who at the very worst, releases your funds after 10 business days.  10 beats the pants off of 90 days any day of the week as far as I'm concerned.

[dianaward]

I have used Paypal for my online business since they first began, but I still pay around $100 plus a month for a real merchant account. Why? Because Paypal is so danged unprofessional! Their payment system confuses the customer and their heavy-handed managment of business owners is legendary, I am unwilling to risk my income and reputation on their system. Authorize.net won't confiscate my money without explanation or proof, and keep it for months, as has happened to several other online businesspeople I know. One acquaintance lost his new business because he did so well in a short period that Paypal put a hold on his funds to "investigate." Paypal allowed no argument, and without his funds he was unable to fulfill his customer's orders, causing a flood of complaints against him to Paypal, which caused his funds to remain confiscated, and ended in the loss of his business altogether. Months later they gave him his money and a "sorry."

Why do I still have a Paypal account? Because there are those people who will only pay online using Paypal, and I like to pay with it myself. But I keep the bulk of my funds in the bank, not in Paypal. Will I make them my sole credit card processor? Not on your life!

[bln51753]

ty for your input, i am cking into my other options. paypal and ebay can be one less customer, if they even care at all.

[Coffeeguy]

This has been a problem for our business ever since they created this new page layout. People can't readily find the credit card link and they get confused, and we lose sales.

What is even worse is what they just did this week (apparently). I have customers calling me and complaining that their credit card payment was not made, but rather, they received a notice that their payment has been processed through PayPal. It doesn't say PayPal Virtual Terminal , which we use, it just now says PayPal. I can't tell you how many calls we have received on this.

It's very obviously an attempt to pretend that credit card processing does not exist and PayPal is great for everything. The problem is, this goes to customers who already chose NOT to use PayPal and instead supply their credit card information for the Virtual Terminal. Doh, of course they are angry when they see that message. PayPal is so arrogant on these interface issues... no amount of complaining ever gets them to hesitate for a second on making these destructive changes that affect our bottom line.

[Socialsmartkids]

I'm losing business due to this issue as well.  I've called PayPal customer service three times and the last rep put me hold forever and then disconnected the call.  I have to find another payment processing system soon!

[ebfinster]

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@ebfinster wrote:

I too would love to be able to have that second page come up all the time, and it seems to be doing it for some people, but I can't figure out why.  It must be something in the person's browser environment ...

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This page display behavior appears to be based on whether you have a cookie on your computer that indicates that you have previously logged into a PayPal account on that computer.  If you do, it appears that it displays the page with the small "continue" link for card processing.  If you do not have the cookie, you get the second page with all of the credit card input fields.  Can anyone confirm this?

[DexSinister]

I can confirm that if-and-only-if you have no Paypal cookies whatsoever, it brings up a perfectly acceptable Pay with Credit Card or Log In "fill out CC details on the left or sign in on the right" screen. Easily tested by installing, say, Opera browser if you don't normally use it.

The problem actually lies is the vast number of people who have visited Paypal in the past -  usually trying to set up accounts, but often failing because of Paypal's inability to make anything (even changing an address) straightforward and uncomplicated, or who have made a successful payment from another vendor but did not set up an account. Both have "visited " Paypal and are "returning".

These, Paypal regards as "returning customers" and, wishing to "steer" (read coerce) them toward signing in, kicks in one of several versions of the "continue" link - either a grey-on-white button, or a tiny link.

Why exactly Paypal believes that their account experience is so weak that people would rather pull a credit card out of their wallet and fill out 13 fields from scratch than sign into their Paypal account -- thus necessitating the unhelpful "overt steering" of hiding the credit side behind the "continue" link -- is a mystery only known to the marketing wizards at Paypal.

Unfortunately, as many, many, many merchant's experiences from customer complaints shows, there are an enormous number of people with these cookies on their computers who have a great deal of trouble getting past these screens. Strangely, the complaint that Paypal wants them to "sign up for an account" is fairly uniform. This causes one to wonder why (or how) the cookies wound up on their computers.

Unfortunately, everyone but Paypal knows that complexity is the bane of successful online payments. So instead of trusting that their customer experience is good enough to make people want to use their payment process by signing in, Paypal introduces useless confusing complexity of at least three different screens -- and robs themselves and us of income by confusing the willing customers with money in their hands.

[DexSinister]

I'd have to agree about Google Payments, or for that matter Amazon Payments. Actually, I use all three on my website.

But I still think that Paypal has some advantages in terms of ease of sending people to a cart or checkout by using a link in an email. I use e-junkie.com to generate a shopping cart or payment link, which I think allows me more flexibility of methods of promotion - but of course when customers get there to the payment page, there's more chance of them being confused and bailing.

[jory12]

I have a business that requires PayPal transactions, and this problem is so common that I fear how many customers I am losing that I DON'T get the complaint phone calls and emails from.  They are always so upset over having to "join PayPal" just to purchase an item.  Does PayPal actually read these complaints and do anything about it?  Trying to contact PP customer service has been useless!