Chargeback and buyer KEEPS merchandise

[Househound]

I have seen MANYl reports on another forum of buyers filing chargebacks w/ their credit card co's, buyer being refunded, yet being allowed to KEEP the merchandise.  Sounds fraudulant to me.  And of course no Seller protection, so seller is out mechandise PLUS the $$$.

Wondering if anyone else has heard of this, experienced this.  And what a seller can do to fight this?

Once word gets out, this is going to become a HUGE and simple scam for fraudulant buyers.  And sellers are going to be left hung out to dry.

[RetroCampaigns]

This just happened to me actually. A guy from Indonesia ordered shirts, I sent them, and then like a month or so later he disputed the charge. Paypal deducted the amount of the sale PLUS a $10 fee for "charge back processing" from my account.

So, yes - anyone can order from you and then decide to dispute the charge and 1) the customer keeps the merchandise, 2) Paypal takes your money and 3) Paypal also takes a fee .

[Amanda411]

Hi All,

A chargeback is a consumer right. No matter how you accept credit card payments you could be liable for a chargeback.

PayPal does dispute chargebacks on your behalf, especially if we have proof that can be used in the dispute. For example, if a buyer claims significantly not as a described, a statement from the seller indicating that the item has not been returned may be used. Unless you are covered by the Seller Protection Policy, the decision rests with the issuing credit card company.

To learn more about your liability, please check the Seller Protection Policy in the PayPal User Agreement.

Amanda

[RetroCampaigns]

Paypal offers zero seller protection, but yes, this is stated in their user agreement, so good on you for that. It doesn't make it any less of a fraud that you are upfront about not only facilitating theft but benefiting financially from it however.

[Househound]

Hi Amanda.. your response on behalf of PP appreciated.  I am well aware that PP does what it can to dispute on behalf of a seller.  BUT, considering that the CC co is the one who makes the final decision.. and that it is in their best interest to side w/ their client.. the buyer... Sellers are getting left out on the cold OFTEN in charge back situations.  And quite frankly, some of the charge back situations I hear about are IMO borderline fraudulant. 

Specifically....I have seen MANY instance in which a charge back is filed by a buyer against an ebay seller, buyer wins the charge back and the merchandise is NOT returned, and the CC Co does not require that it be returned.  Which I would have thought would be considered theft, but I am finding that apparently it is not.  This IMO should be a fraudulant charge back and abuse of CC protection.

Is there some way that PP sellers can be protected against SNAD in a charge back situation?

[Millstone]

Hi Amanda,

Regarding your claim that pay-pal will dispute the chargeback if we have proof, that is not true. In my case I provided  proof by not only describing the item in detail but that my ad provided photographs from every angle. I also had many conversations with the buyer to clear up any questions the buyer might have prior to shipping. I provided pay-pal with ALL documentation they requested (and I had a strong case) against the credit card company. I feel in NO way could pay-pal have failed in my defense with all the evidence I provided. In fact I even consulted with pay-pal prior to shipping my item with the concerns I was having with the buyer. Pay-pal reassured me that shipping the item was safe. I have been unable to get the item shipped back to me after numerous attempts. On one attempt contacting the buyer, who claims that the shoes I sold her where 'fake'  or 'significantly not as described'  now claims that she took them to the shoemaker to have them looked at so that the bottom of the shoes are now scraped  (sounds sketchy to me). I would guess that is why I have not received them!! maybe after she gets tired of wearing them I will get them back!!! Well, I have been scammed over $400 and I have incurred additional pay-pal fees. When I contacted pay-pal, the advice I received was, " it is a chance you take accepting credit cards as a seller you will have profits/loses and I should just add this to my loses."

If you feel that the information I have provided is incorrect, please let me know. I feel you should not go around claiming you back people up when in fact you do not. This is simply not true and I think it needs to come to and end.

I no longer plan on selling on e bay. If this is the way pay-pal treats there sellers than I no longer want to do business with a company that I feel is a scam. I have read numerous complaints from other sellers with the exact complaint. Pay-pal needs to step up to the plate and look out for the sellers, after all we help keep you in business!

If pay-pal would like to work with me to correct the problem, I would also like to hear from you. I will await your response either way.

[jencohn]

I BOUGHT AN ITEM FROM CHINA, MY 1ST MISTAKE.  AND THE ITEM WAS A FAKE, NOT REAL HUMAN HAIR, AND NOT THE CORRECT STYLE.  I CALLED PAY PAL TO SEE WHAT WOULD BE BEST.  I FILED A CLAIM.  THEY TOLD ME TO SEND THE ITEM BACK, OR, I WOULD NOT GET MY MONEY BACK.  SO, I DID JUST THAT, SHIPPING COST ME ANOTHER $19.00.  I SENT THEM THE USPS RECEIPT TRACKING 3.  THE NEXT DAY THEY CLOSED MY CASE, AND WOULD NOT GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK, AFTER, I RETURNED THE WIG, PAID FOR MORE SHIPPING.  AND GOT NOTHING.  THEY NEVER DID GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWERE ON WHY THE SELLER GOT MY MONEY AND THE WIG BACK, .  I GOT NOTHING, BUT,  EMPTY POCKETS.  MAYBE, THEY SHOULD GET RID OF THE MIMUMIM WAGE, AND GET KNOWLEDGABLE WORKERS. 

[surplusdealdude]

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@jencohn wrote:

I BOUGHT AN ITEM FROM CHINA, MY 1ST MISTAKE.  AND THE ITEM WAS A FAKE, NOT REAL HUMAN HAIR, AND NOT THE CORRECT STYLE.  I CALLED PAY PAL TO SEE WHAT WOULD BE BEST.  I FILED A CLAIM.  THEY TOLD ME TO SEND THE ITEM BACK, OR, I WOULD NOT GET MY MONEY BACK.  SO, I DID JUST THAT, SHIPPING COST ME ANOTHER $19.00.  I SENT THEM THE USPS RECEIPT TRACKING 3.  THE NEXT DAY THEY CLOSED MY CASE, AND WOULD NOT GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK, AFTER, I RETURNED THE WIG, PAID FOR MORE SHIPPING.  AND GOT NOTHING.  THEY NEVER DID GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWERE ON WHY THE SELLER GOT MY MONEY AND THE WIG BACK, .  I GOT NOTHING, BUT,  EMPTY POCKETS.  MAYBE, THEY SHOULD GET RID OF THE MIMUMIM WAGE, AND GET KNOWLEDGABLE WORKERS. 

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You could not ship anything back to China for $19.00 and get tracking or delivery confirmation.

Paypal requires proof of delivery, not proof that you mailed it.

You didn't provide the proof, so you lost the case.

[surplusdealdude]

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@Millstone wrote:

Hi Amanda,

Regarding your claim that pay-pal will dispute the chargeback if we have proof, that is not true. In my case I provided  proof by not only describing the item in detail but that my ad provided photographs from every angle. I also had many conversations with the buyer to clear up any questions the buyer might have prior to shipping. I provided pay-pal with ALL documentation they requested (and I had a strong case) against the credit card company. I feel in NO way could pay-pal have failed in my defense with all the evidence I provided. In fact I even consulted with pay-pal prior to shipping my item with the concerns I was having with the buyer. Pay-pal reassured me that shipping the item was safe. I have been unable to get the item shipped back to me after numerous attempts. On one attempt contacting the buyer, who claims that the shoes I sold her where 'fake'  or 'significantly not as described'  now claims that she took them to the shoemaker to have them looked at so that the bottom of the shoes are now scraped  (sounds sketchy to me). I would guess that is why I have not received them!! maybe after she gets tired of wearing them I will get them back!!! Well, I have been scammed over $400 and I have incurred additional pay-pal fees. When I contacted pay-pal, the advice I received was, " it is a chance you take accepting credit cards as a seller you will have profits/loses and I should just add this to my loses."

If you feel that the information I have provided is incorrect, please let me know. I feel you should not go around claiming you back people up when in fact you do not. This is simply not true and I think it needs to come to and end.

I no longer plan on selling on e bay. If this is the way pay-pal treats there sellers than I no longer want to do business with a company that I feel is a scam. I have read numerous complaints from other sellers with the exact complaint. Pay-pal needs to step up to the plate and look out for the sellers, after all we help keep you in business!

If pay-pal would like to work with me to correct the problem, I would also like to hear from you. I will await your response either way.

---

Yes, it is true.

I had  a chargeback a couple of months ago.

I supplied Paypal with my end of the story and the proof that I had.

I received notification today that I won the chargeback.

Note the important step - I SUPPLIED PAYPAL WITH PROOF.

Paypal cannot help you if you give them no facts to work with.  Statements by you that you did such-and-such are not proof - they are unproven allegations.  You need to back them up.

[fuchsiafirefly]

YES, THIS JUST HAPPENED TO ME FOR $750.00!!!  I BUY AND SELL HANDBAGS AND ONE BUYER DECIDED THAT IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE HER CHARGE AND SHE FILED A CHARGEBACK.  I WAS JUST SET TO BY SOMETHING AND BAM, MONEY GONE OUT OF MY PP ACCOUNT:-(  I EMAILED HER AND SHE SAID SHE CALLED PP AND SAID THAT IT WASN'T ME AND STILL NO WORD FRIM PP????  WHO'S SIDE ARE THEY ON?????  IT SEEMS YOU CAN BUY ANYTHING AND THEN DECIDE NOT TO PAY FOR IT!!!!  I SENT ALL NECESSARY DOCUMENTS BUY IT APPEARS I'M STILL OUT THE FUNDS.  

I AM NOW DECIDING IT IS NOT WORTH ALL THE TROUBLE, NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU LOSE YOUR PRIZE POSSESSIONS AND YOUR MONEY TO BOOT!

I SAY SHAME ON PP FOR NOT PROTECTING THE PEOPLE PAYING THEM!!!!