Dispute resolution is obviously automated - so why ask for the seller to comment

[KenBarlow]

Here is the scenario:

+ Buyer purchases digital goods that are delivered by email.

+ Buyer contacts seller to say goods didn't arrive.

+ Seller provides (IMHO) excellent service by communicating with buyer immediately to try to resolve the problem (it is normally simply an email spam trap, junk filter, IP address block etc.).  All emails from this communication remain on record.

+ Seller thinks problem is resolved and does not hear from buyer for 5 weeks.

+ Buyer raises dispute saying the transaction was not authorised - this is obviously not correct unless the seller was communicating with somebody other than the buyer - or the buyers account or email account has been hacked.

+ Seller receives email asking for a comment on the dispute - within minutes a comment that describes the above scenario is posted - including an offer to provide the correspondence with the buyer as evidence that the transaction must have been authorised.

+ Seller clicks Send (or Post or whatever it is) to send the comment on the dispute.

+ The dispute is immediately closed and the funds refunded with no possible way that anybody could have read the dispute response in the time scale, let alone asking for the evidence to be provided.

Why ask for the seller to provide a comment if it is not going to be read or make any difference to the outcome?

What action can I take to make a complaint against the buyer, who in my opinion has defrauded me?  As far as I can see only buyers can make complaints using the (automated) system.

If there is no seller protection for digital goods does this mean that Paypal cannot be used for such a service, and that I can by any digital goods I like through Paypal and then just claim my money back as soon as they arrive?

Thanks.

[montydog]

Hi there

A similar thing has just happened to me. I sold an item through ebay. Posted it out to France to the buyer on a Friday. On the Monday the buyer closed their ebay account and took out  dispute against  me via paypal saying that the goods had not been received. Paypal have found in the buyers favour and taken the money from me.

I agree that the dispute resolution is clearly automated as this is obviously a scam otherwise why shut down a new ebay account.  I'm going to try and speak to a person at paypal tomorrow

[Boz]

Got a similar situation myself.......

But with a currently different outcome (still pending)

I think it very largely depends on EXACTLY which buttons within paypal u push and at which point.

According to paypals terms, intangible items offer zero paypal protection for a buyer.

While i think a chargeback is different from a "item not recived" dispute, any item not recived not recived claim shouldnt have a leg to stand on according to paypals terms.

Looks like people are useing good knowledge of exactly how paypals dispute system works and almost forceing the other party into a position the automated system force closes the dispute, at which point its never to be seen or heard of again.

I was being offered the choice of

1. provide a tracking number or

2. issue refund

by the automated system. There was no tracking number for a item delivered virtually. **bleep** the buy didnt even supply a address to "ship to"

Only after a phone call to paypal directly was i advised to "enter a tracking number, any random numbers and a comment its a virtual item" which then pushed the dispute to the next level of awaiting other partys responce.

My advise  is to speak to them on the phone before u click, push, fill out anything insite at all.

Stilll remains to be seen if i "win" the dispute or not

[Boz]

Got a similar situation myself.......

But with a currently different outcome (still pending)

I think it very largely depends on EXACTLY which buttons within paypal u push and at which point.

According to paypals terms, intangible items offer zero paypal protection for a buyer.

While i think a chargeback is different from a "item not recived" dispute, any item not recived not recived claim shouldnt have a leg to stand on according to paypals terms.

Looks like people are useing good knowledge of exactly how paypals dispute system works and almost forceing the other party into a position the automated system force closes the dispute, at which point its never to be seen or heard of again.

I was being offered the choice of

1. provide a tracking number or

2. issue refund

by the automated system. There was no tracking number for a item delivered virtually. **bleep** the buy didnt even supply a address to "ship to"

Only after a phone call to paypal directly was i advised to "enter a tracking number, any random numbers and a comment its a virtual item" which then pushed the dispute to the next level of awaiting other partys responce.

My advise  is to speak to them on the phone before u click, push, fill out anything insite at all.

Stilll remains to be seen if i "win" the dispute or not

[montydog]

I called and spoke to paypal. They told me that in all cases that you do not provide tracking they will find in favour of the buyer.

 He said that my receipt only shows I sent something and it could've been anything - a brick. (obviously there are many flaws with this - surely the buyer could say I sent a brick whatever they signed for?!)

Anyway

After MUCH discussion - on why bother to engage the seller at all when the outcome was already decided (I was told to allow time for the item to arrive)

Why they clearly did not look at the bigger picture - like has this person done this before, isn't it suspcious they closed down a new ebay account, I have an excellant selling record....and can proove I sent the item with a receipt

The only conclusion I got was

If you want a chance of winning always track your items. He did at least agree to check the account of the buyer to see if they have done this before. He also told me to claim back through royal mail.

Great way to do business!

[KenBarlow]

I originally wrote (email) to Paypal, but received a reply to say for that type of dispute I would have to call.  So I rang, but as my screen was telling me how much the call was costing and I didn't receive an answer within a reasonable time, so hung up before the call cost more than the amount I had already been diddled out of.

I think there are a lot of people who know that Paypal is not a secure medium for sellers, and take advantage knowing they will get away with it.  I'm sure it is secure for buyers.  Its the opposite of the saying "buyer beware", as it is apparently "seller beware".

I'm sure Paypal is good for ebay sellers, so long as the goods they are selling are valued massively above the cost of posting with tracking - which is very expensive.  For my sort of business though, I think its time has come to an end.

[luvdmk]

exactly the same has happened to me the buyer has closed her ebay account,and filed a dispute against me and even though i can provide receipts and messages to prove this buyer is dodgy paypal have still awarded them a refund as long as they send the item back to me.the item i sent was brand new and i probably wont get item back in that condition if at all!!! paypal needs to sort out this dispute system and make it more favourable to honest sellers like myself who constantly get ripped off by dodgy buyers who know how to fiddle the system..... NOT FAIR at all. i will no longer sell on ebay because of this...