scammed by software download

[xtine118]

I am still very upset by PayPal agreeing to pay Usenet.nl 99.96 euros without my permission. I had initally agreed to a 1euro payment by Pay Pal for access to academic site - they sent me password etc for download but when I tried it Avira (internet protection) told me it was Malware.

I left it well alone to find out two weeks later that Pay Pal had taken the £89 from my debit account and paid them I immediately phoned Pay Pal in Dublin (international phone call) they said they'd look into it. They kept me informed and asssured me it would be OK. Then they decided that I was liable to pay because the goods were not tangible!!!

This is obviously a scam. It is being platformed by Pay Pal and I am very unhappy. I don't trust Pay Pal to have my bank details any more - that way they can't take money from my account. They will not discuss it anymore - return my mails. What can I do?

[surplusdealdude]

Should have read the User Agreement.

You have no protection for items that are not as described unless it's an ebay sale.

If you used a credit card to pay for the item, file a chargeback by calling the customer service number on the back of the card.

[xtine118]

it was a debit card - so no protection there.

Do you mean usernet.nl User Agreement? I only agreed to pay 1 euro.

Of course, but  is/was there not an element of trust on the internet ? -  once this is lost we are doomed. How many people seriously have time to read all the terms and agreements? We trust they will be fair and not fraudulant. I think PayPal having been told this company was fraudulantly operating should have refunded. Bizarrely when I look at my PayPal report it says that a refund was initiated and paid - but then I got an email refusing - and there is no right to reply.

I have also discovered that although usernets started off on the web as innocent often university based info sources (I was looking for an academic link) usernet.nl is all about hacking and secrecy and I have been told they are now used by people who want to hide material from their computers. Bad people with bad practices. Supported by PayPal. That is what shocks me.

[surplusdealdude]

I only agreed to pay 1 euro.

There will be fine print somewhere on the web page - if you can't find it, try highlighting the whole page - sometimes, it's white-on-white.

The User Agreement I'm referring to is the one at the bottom of THIS page under "legal agreements" - you should read it.

but  is/was there not an element of trust on the internet ?

Stick around fraud forums for a week and you'll lose that.

You have to learn how to research sellers and what the common scams are.

And ALWAYS use a credit card that allows chargebacks - you can trust people that can't hurt you.

I think PayPal having been told this company was fraudulantly operating should have refunded.

I don't know why Paypal should be held responsible for another company being a fraud - obviously, they've defrauded Paypal as well as to their intentions.

they are now used by people who want to hide material from their computers.

"usenet" is a generic name, not a company.  There are millions of them - a whole slew operated by Google Groups, actually.

Some are no doubt crooked, just like some websites are crooked, just like some brick and mortar store owners are crooked - you don't close down the entire industry because of a few bad apples.

If you want to report this guy, file a complaint at www.ic3.gov - that's the FBI reporting center for internet crime.  They're pretty busy, but if they get enough reports, they'll go after the guys.

[xtine118]

The reason why Pay Pal is implicated is that it wouldn't have happened without their facility. People wouldn't go through the signing up of their credit cards for 1 euro - they weren't offering anything special. I soon found what I wanted. It just could have been useful. There was no sign from their emails that I had agreed to anything but 1 euro.

And now that PayPal know that site is fraudulant why for the good of their name don't they refund me or at least  stop trading with them and stop taking their money and stop other people being scammed?

[xtine118]

I have looked further into terms and conditions of PayPal as you advised and see that the money was taken out of the default payment way set by you - which is my direct bank account. Apparently I can change this in any particular transaction - otherwise this is where the money is always taken from. As I didn't know there was a transaction I was rather caught do you not agree? I see that you like people to get their money back from credit cards - you do not offer any security like them - just 100% safety????

I have withdrawn my bank details from PayPal and can only warn others. If someone wishes to pay me by PayPal they can and I will only use PayPal money for purchases that is the only way I feel safe.

[surplusdealdude]

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@xtine118 wrote:

The reason why Pay Pal is implicated is that it wouldn't have happened without their facility. People wouldn't go through the signing up of their credit cards for 1 euro - they weren't offering anything special. I soon found what I wanted. It just could have been useful. There was no sign from their emails that I had agreed to anything but 1 euro.

And now that PayPal know that site is fraudulant why for the good of their name don't they refund me or at least  stop trading with them and stop taking their money and stop other people being scammed?

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So, if you get into a car accident, you sue the town because they put a road there?

I don't think so.

why for the good of their name don't they refund me or at least  stop trading with them and stop taking their money and stop other people being scammed?

Because they were just the money holder, not the perpetrator of the fraud.  They don'y owe you any money.

Because nobody has reported the site as  fraud site yet.

[xtine118]

Because they were just the money holder, not the perpetrator of the fraud

they took money out of my bank account without my permission.

They actually gave the reason as because the goods that I didn't have (because it was Malware) were not tanglible.

I just think that 100% safe claim is rubbish. There is no security.

There are lots of complaints about Usenet.nl on the internet about this practise. Of course there are lots of glowing reports too - quite clearly put up by themselves....they know how to play the internet and the victims are people like me. As you say - usenets shouldn't give cause for alarm.

Very saddened by your lack of sympathy.

[surplusdealdude]

I give sympathy where it is warrented, but I deal in facts first.

You keep trying to find a way around a simple concept and there is no way around it.

People a lot smarter than you and I have made this bulletproof.

Now, I am not going to spend the rest of my life debating this - move on.

[xtine118]

 I received two emails from PayPal today saying they wanted to take money out of my account  - through a DDI I had initiated (of course I haven't) I had removed my bank details and card details from PayPal so they cant remove any more money and they are asking me to resinstate it . I have reported it to NatWest Fraud and they are taking it up.

I am insulted by your tone. Your grounds are insupportable. PayPals practises are very suspect if this is what they are.