Paypal sides with buyer! DON'T USE PAYPAL

[pibrew]

The case that was opened against me was pitiful. I listed an auction on Ebay, the buyer paid for it using his credit card, I shipped it, the buyer gave me positive feedback and then 6 weeks later disputed the charges saying it was not authorized???  THE BUYER authorized it!!!!!  He used HIS credit card...I was not holding a gun to his head MAKING him pay for it.

The buyer was NEVER saying he didn't receive the item, but was saying even though HE entered his credit card information that it was not authorized!  ARE YOU KIDDING ME????  Of course, Paypal took his side on it.

I now have since tried to make contact with the buyer to get my item back and guess what???  HE WON'T RESPOND TO ME!!!!!!!!  So, now I guess I am out of luck.  Where is Paypal when I need MY rights looked after????  Oh...I know...they buyer is ALWAYS right!

I can't tell you how frustrated I am, but this buyer committing out and out fraud and Paypal HELPS him do it!  UNBELIEVABLE....stop and think about it.  PAYPAL IS HELPING PEOPLE COMMIT FRAUD!!!

PAYPAL IS HELPING PEOPLE COMMIT FRAUD!!!

PAYPAL IS HELPING PEOPLE COMMIT FRAUD!!!

Thanks for nothing Paypal.

Robert 

[I3ongwat3r]

Credit card chargeback rights are broader than PayPal’s protection programs. Credit card chargebacks may be filed more than 45 days after the payment and may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as significantly not as described.

4.4 Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and Claims

Agreement if you lose a Claim or a Chargeback, or if there is a Reversal of the payment. You agree to allow PayPal to recover any amounts due to PayPal by debiting your Balance. If there are insufficient funds in your Balance to cover your liability, you agree to reimburse PayPal through other means. If a sender of a payment files a Chargeback, the credit card issuer, not PayPal, will determine who wins the Chargeback.

Do you recognize those words?  You should, you clicked a button that said you read and agreed to them. So I dont know where your anger is coming from except your angry at yourself.

Not to mention chargebacks are there for a reason.  What if the buyer was using a stolen credit card to purchase items from you.  Then the actual card holder sees transactions on their statement and files a chargeback because their card was stolen are you going to deny them that right?  You got scammed paypal was the tool the con artist used, now you have learned.

[pibrew]

I figured you would respond....the resident Paypal fanboy.  So, you assume that he has a stolen credit card, set up a fake a ebay account, give fake positive feedback, fake correspond  with me numerous times...give me a fake address to send it to...ok, your right, I give up.

You don't see what I am angry about...serious???  come on.

[I3ongwat3r]

Read my post again.

I didnt say thats what they did I said thats what can happen thats why you need to know about chargebacks.  Don't be so thick and think your an exception to any rule or regulation.  You should be mad, mad at yourself for not reading the user agreement.  You dont read, you dont learn you dont deserve any sympathy.

[argh]

Heh. Blind Fanboy.

Paypal could, and should have, checked into this one deeper.   As the OP says, there was not only a credit card involved, but an eBay account and the address the item was shipped to.   Paypal took the easy way out, and little FAQ blurbs about chargebacks isn't good enough to hide behind.

Bottom line is that Paypal found for the buyer because it was cheaper for them than fighting the chargeback.  Legal? Perhaps.  Moral? Nope.

[redpower]

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@argh wrote:

Heh. Blind Fanboy.

Paypal could, and should have, checked into this one deeper.   As the OP says, there was not only a credit card involved, but an eBay account and the address the item was shipped to.   Paypal took the easy way out, and little FAQ blurbs about chargebacks isn't good enough to hide behind.

Bottom line is that Paypal found for the buyer because it was cheaper for them than fighting the chargeback.  Legal? Perhaps.  Moral? Nope.

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Apparently you didn't read the " little FAQ blurbs about chargebacks". You make it sound like PayPal can stop a chargeback. THEY CAN'T.  And they don't make the decision on who wins a chargeback. PayPal can check as deep as they want into it but with a chargeback the cc company makes the decision.

[argh]

Er, yeah, Paypal can't stop a chargeback from being initiated.  Thanks for being condescending and sarcastic...right back at cha.

However, the quality of research and documentation that they present the credit card company during a chargeback are perhaps the single most likely thing to influence the CC companies in their decision.

I don't understand all the Paypal apologists.  Just because Paypal is exempt from much of the law that governs other financial institutions doesn't mean it's "okay" or "right" for them to turn 100% of that exemption into profit.  You think they would have some sort of internal ethics guide such that all decisions aren't guided by "what hurts Paypal the least" or "what makes Paypal the most money".   Profit is, of course, required, but those that lead with it eventually get bitten.   The mortage collapse, Enron, et al.

[redpower]

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@argh wrote:

Er, yeah, Paypal can't stop a chargeback from being initiated.  Thanks for being condescending and sarcastic...right back at cha.

However, the quality of research and documentation that they present the credit card company during a chargeback are perhaps the single most likely thing to influence the CC companies in their decision.

I don't understand all the Paypal apologists.  Just because Paypal is exempt from much of the law that governs other financial institutions doesn't mean it's "okay" or "right" for them to turn 100% of that exemption into profit.  You think they would have some sort of internal ethics guide such that all decisions aren't guided by "what hurts Paypal the least" or "what makes Paypal the most money".   Profit is, of course, required, but those that lead with it eventually get bitten.   The mortage collapse, Enron, et al.

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I never said they don't initiate the chargeback, it's pretty obvious who does that.  The quality of research and documentation they present the cc company is only whatever documentation that YOU give PayPal when they ask you for any info you have to support your case.  If you don't respond when they ask for this info, you will automatically lose the dispute.  And I don't support PayPal like you think I do, I just know how things work.  And I know what everyone agreed to in that user agreement.

[argh]

Oh, so you assume Paypal passes on ONLY what the seller provides.  And you further assume that they pass on everything the seller provides, verbatim, without editorializing and without exclusion?

And, you assume that Paypal doesn't have relevant info that the seller might not possess?  Seriously?

One example.   Paypal knows if the buyer has lodged an usual number of disputes in the past.  Perhaps info the CC company doesn't have (if the past disputes were with a different credit card, or not using a credit card )

Another example:  Paypal can choose to include, or exclude, statements from the buyer that were made in the resolution center.   Statements that could change a decision. 

I'll stop arguing, as you are obviously taking the stance that Paypal is some sort of unerring, perfect deity, and all seller and buyer complaints track back to their lack of understanding of the holy terms and conditions.  Can't fight religion.

[redpower]

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@argh wrote:

Oh, so you assume Paypal passes on ONLY what the seller provides.  And you further assume that they pass on everything the seller provides, verbatim, without editorializing and without exclusion?

And, you assume that Paypal doesn't have relevant info that the seller might not possess?  Seriously?

One example.   Paypal knows if the buyer has lodged an usual number of disputes in the past.  Perhaps info the CC company doesn't have (if the past disputes were with a different credit card, or not using a credit card )

Another example:  Paypal can choose to include, or exclude, statements from the buyer that were made in the resolution center.   Statements that could change a decision. 

I'll stop arguing, as you are obviously taking the stance that Paypal is some sort of unerring, perfect deity, and all seller and buyer complaints track back to their lack of understanding of the holy terms and conditions.  Can't fight religion.

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Yes, as far as PayPal goes, they will only use what you provide.  And if you lose, take the person to court, or take a loss.