Looking to gather feedback from PayPal users

[PayPal_Colin]

Greetings, all --

My name is Colin Rule, and I am PayPal's Director of Online Dispute Resolution.

I am currently working with the Customer Advocacy team to gather feedback on aspects of our Risk Management systems that are generating user frustration.

The areas I am most interested in include:

1. Payment holds / reviews

2. Payment declines

3. Limitations / restrictions

4. Buyer and seller protections

5. The Resolution Center (disputes/claims)

6. Chargebacks / bank declines

If you have experience with one of these processes and you'd like to provide some constructive feedback on how to make it better, please post a message in this thread or email me at crule{at}paypal.com. 

Please note: I do not work in customer support, so I will not be able to help with individual disputes, claims, or limitations.  I am more interested in feedback about how our overall systems can be improved so as to minimize frustration moving ahead.

Many thanks!  I hope to hear from many of you soon.

Colin

[PayPal_Colin]

Thanks for the follow ups, guys...

Intranetusa posted: "I think paypal should have the same rules for both ebay and non-ebay purchases. That would clear up a lot of confusion, and give at least some form of buyer protection to non-ebay purchases. (the current buyer complaint policy is inadequate)"

I agree that this would be the clearest way to structure the protection policy. I think we're moving in that direction -- however, providing merchandise protection for every kind of transaction across the internet is complicated, so we need to make sure we do it right. But we do currently have protection for both on-eBay and off-eBay purchases. Buyers are always protected against unauthorized account access no matter what. Buyers also are protected everywhere against item non-receipt. The only difference in protection coverage comes in not-as-described disputes, and as I mentioned, PayPal is launching a pilot program to extend that coverage off-eBay this year for the first time. It's in the UK only, but the goal is to see how it goes and expand it as makes sense. As I explained before, it's complicated off eBay because we can't be sure how the item was originally described, whereas on eBay we do know how it was originally described to the buyer.

Robw posted: "The fact ebay forces users to use Paypal is anti competitive. It restrains freedom. Also Paypal will not cover you for any purchases else where, when they have market share."

This isn't true. eBay doesn't force users to use PayPal. Sellers can use their own merchant accounts to process payments, or Paymate, or a variety of other payment channels. Any rule at all restrains freedom to some degree-- the objective is to restrain freedom for a good reason: in this case, the maintenance of trust and safety. The open internet has pretty much no rules for ecommerce sellers, and buyers avoid it and shop on stores like eBay for that very reason -- they want to shop in places with rules that protect them. And as I explained before, PayPal does provide protection on and off eBay -- the only difference is in SNAD coverage (which is a pretty small slice of the pie in terms of volume) and recoupment from the seller.

Keep 'em coming!

Colin

[Robw]

Colin, If you mean SNAD, where the items I bought recently which turned up stinking of smoke and looking like they taken a walk on the motorway in rush hour. This same seller could do this on ebay and I could claim. You tell me when the trial is on and then ring to reopen the claim.

ebay has loads of dodgy sellers (bootleg DVD's), when you hit the report do ebay take them off - no.  Because you need to be the interlectual hold of that property.  So hardly a great debate to be started over that one.

[Intranetusa]

PayPal_Colin posted: But we do currently have protection for both on-eBay and off-eBay purchases. Buyers are always protected against unauthorized account access no matter what. Buyers also are protected everywhere against item non-receipt. The only difference in protection coverage comes in not-as-described disputes, and as I mentioned,

Hi there,

thanks for your reply. Well, there are some other important differences. Ebay buyers are covered by insurance for items that don't arrive. Direct-paypal users on the other hand, are only covered by the amount that paypal can recover from the seller's account.

However, I'm currently in a situation where I paid a seller $410 for an item and he never shipped it. Then he tried closing his account I believe. I'm currently in the paypal-dispute process, but if this scam seller has already transfered all his paypal funds back into his bank account, then I would not be able to recover a penny of my money back. So in this situation, a scam seller just has to recieve the money, clear his account, and then disappear while buyers like me are left without any way to recover our money.

Also, I have no idea if the 21-day money hold policy applies to just ebay or also direct-paypal transactions where the seller doesn't have a lot of feedback.

So IMO, a way to improve direct-paypal transfers is to have more verification processes for the seller, and ways to punish the seller if the seller tries to run away with the buyer's money.

[Intranetusa]

btw I'd like to say that for direct-paypal transfers, I would not hestitate to pay a small fee (ie. 5%) for insurance to cover my purchase in case scam sellers take my money, clear his paypal account, and run away with it.

[BigKahuna97]

Now that would be an AMAZING idea.  Just as the USPS has an insurance fee to ensure the mail is delivered non-damaged an option for members to tick a small 3%-5% insurance fee on PayPal payments would make me feel safer if it was a large purchase.  If enough people were to buy into the idea I can imagine PP's losses would drop considerably.  Not sure how this would work but I think it's a great idea (to some).

[sandypurins]

About 7-8 years ago PayPal had a Money Back Guarantee program where the buyer could elect to pay a small fee which would give the buyer the option to resell and ship the item to PayPal if the buyer was not satisfied with the purchase.

The program was discontinued after a few years.

[luxurygallery]

???????If I buy something from sellers who say to have a paypal account but is not with eBay and something happens and I decide to file a dispute, do I get the same coverage as if it was from and eBay user or there is no protection?

I am about to buy some shoes from this company that say to have a paypal account, they already sent me the name, but the seller is outside eBay, alibaba to be exact. ???????

[Leprechaun25]

Paypal needs to loosen the requirements to not be hassled by the 21 day hold policy. I've been using Ebay and Paypal for 10 years. 100% positive feedback on 60+ transactions. Yet I get the "your payment is being held" notification half the time I sell something because it's in a "high risk category." Why can't paypal give the user the benefit of the doubt? If they haven't had a problem in the past, then why pre-emptively limit their account?

It's also confusing from the perspective of giving your customers what they expect when they use your service. I didn't sign up to use paypal as an escrow service. When you hold payment until the item has been delivered, that's what Paypal is becoming, and almost no one uses Paypal with the intention to escrow funds.

Lastly, Paypal is in the dubious position of being the sole determiner of whether funds should be held or not, and then profiting off of the interest collected on held funds. It's a conflict of interest for them to be in this position, and from a user's perspective it looks very very shady.

[Metalsoft]

Paypal needs to stand behind there BUYER PROTECTION.

Not only did I get the shaft from Ebay seller, but paypal also.

GOOGLE CHECKOUT FOR THE WIN.

CHECK IT OUT< SO WE CAN START HAVING SOMETHING BESIDES PAYPAL CONTROLING THIS.

Oh and Senior Agent Robert. Go F*CK YOURSELF YOU LITTLE SMART A*S.

[surplusdealdude]

surplusdealdude, you mentioned that there's a glitch delaying the posting of payments on PayPal -- is that still going on?

Yes, it is, and I'm seeing other glitches as well.

Paypal's servers have been overworked since you added Overstock and that other big account ( can't remember the name, but I think it was Wolrd of Warcraft).

You need to add a pile more servers - we're starting to get random glitches of all sorts on the weekends, when the servers are the busiest.

Sign-in problems, Weird emails (tonight, a bunch of guys are being told that their debit cards have expired when they haven't) - the system is making up its own problems.

I saw exactly the same issues when ebays servers were overloaded, just before they installed 1,000 new servers a couple of years ago.  If those servers start failing, they'll fail on the busiest day ( a weekend), and you're risking a cascade failure that could take the whole system down.

I absolutely agree that non-ebay sites should get SNAD protection - we're seeing a lot of problems there.

And another suggestion - put a button on the seller's side that allows the seller to waive return of the item.  On the ebay.ca forums, there's a thread about a person that got a smashed vase.  You cannot ship broken glass by mail - it's illegal and a hazard.  The seller is willing to waive the return.  ebay may or may not allow it but it should be allowed by the seller if they wish.