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I am at a loss here as to what I can do to recover my $116 for a drone that they're now selling for $40!
Paypal have been no help, here's the response I got when I asked why they've ruled against me:
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
I realise that you're not satisfied with the outcome of this dispute. Our claims process is an arbitration service we offer to help resolve disagreements between buyers and sellers, but as you can imagine, it's extremely difficult for us to reach a decision that satisfies all parties.
We deal with all cases objectively and with the intention of making a fair decision based on verifiable information which is available at the time.
Ultimately this isn't an adequate substitute for a constructive dialogue between you and the other party involved. I would suggest this remains your best option for a satisfactory outcome.
Please let me know if you need further assistance.
Protection Services Department
and when I asked again, pointing out that they've provided no explanation or justification as to why my case went differntly to others who actually got a refund, they replied with this:
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
I realise that this isn't the outcome you'd have wished for, but I hope you understand why we made this decision. While I cannot change this, I will make sure your objection is duly recorded.
It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.
Seriously???? What kind of a response is that??? They are just completely dodging the issue!
thats EXACTLY what my dad did.
He refused delivery from the postman & it reflected in the tracking that ZG technology Co limited provided that "DELIVERY WAS REFUSED & THAT THE PACKAGE IS ON IT'S WAY BACK TO SENDER"..
PayPal issued him a full refund & he didn't have to pay ANYTHING to ship the junk back..
There was a Costa Mesa, Calif USA return address on the package but PayPal & ZG Tech wanted him to send it to China..
That is all part of the scam..
Now here is the BEST Part is that 3 wks after refusing delivery of the package it turned back up in his mailbox because the return address on the package wasn't for ZG Technology so the person at that address refused it.. LoL
Its like a comedy show, except for the fact that people are getting robbed for their $$
=-----> COPY & PASTE <-----=
Here is the actual guidelines from the USPS Official Website on HOW TO REFUSE DELIVERY OF ITEM
See section 1.1.2 and 1.1.3:
1.1.2 Refusal at Delivery
The addressee may refuse to accept a mailpiece when it is offered for delivery.
1.1.3 Refusal After Delivery
After delivery, an addressee may mark a mailpiece “Refused” and return it within a reasonable time,
if the piece or any attachment is not opened. Mail that may not be refused and returned unopened under this
provision may be returned to the sender only if it is enclosed in a new envelope or wrapper with a correct
address and new postage.
The following may not be refused and returned postage-free after delivery:
=--------> END <--------=
I have been seen a lot of these scammers no fraudsters mostly selling on Facebook.
Paypal is well aware of the fact they are scammers and fraudsters and as you have said they have gotten other people's money back
The Paypal community pages are full of people who have experienced the same as you have.
But as you have experienced Paypal would like to wash their hands of it. Now Paypal may say it's what they do and their decision is final. That is Paypal policy. But don't go confusing paypal policy with consumer law.
It has already been proven these sellers are committing fraud using false advertising and there is a list of people who have been conned by them.
Paypal cannot say they are not aware of the complaints and the reports. So that makes them complicit in the same.
You have tried to get your money back from the sellers using PayPal. PayPal don't want to know. Then get your money back off them in the small claims court The evidence is there that they know these sellers are nothing more than scammers and PayPal knows it
UPDATE: After returning the junk S9 drone that we received instead of a DJI Spark that we paid $89.58 for with express shipping. Paypal decided to close the case and not refund us because they said the seller never received the item. I called Paypal furious and told them I was going to proceed with legal action since I had done everything they told me to do and that I had everything documented including screenshots, images of merchandise, emails, recorded phone conversations with their reps and specialists who said my money was protected and that I just had to follow their instructions and I would be refunded. Today, I was refunded but I asked if the seller was still getting their money and they said yes. So Paypal lost money and we still lost $32 USD import duties and $8 USD return shipping. So it looks like a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT is coming soon for PAYPAL. Get ready.
* If paypal sends you a return address in Chinese and then re-sends you a translated address in <removed> your return will never be received since that address is a fraudulent address. Also the one in the Netherlands where it was shipped from.
Here are the details on this fraud seller that is being protected by Paypal's policy.
Signs Paypal is protecting fraudster ZG Technology Netherlands China Facebook Marketplace Scam
On June 6 my girlfriend saw an ad on FB for a Drone (being advertised as the DJI Spark drone) which let her to this website from ZG TECHNOLOGY where I made the purchase with PAYPAL for $89.58 with express shipping. The express shipping never happened. She made the purchase because she trusted in PAYPAL as the money handler in case here was any problems. Cicfun dott com and Newstarry dott shop are some of the fraud sites.
She then received a China Post tracking number that never worked. So we contacted the seller who had 2 different emails and ZG TECH never responded on June 13th we placed a claim with PAYPAL about the shipping and they responded as usual to wait on the seller. This is where I began to investigate and discovered that the original purchase site was no longer working and there were now more FaceBook Best Drone ads running with the same Drones and different lower pricing of $49 USD. This is when I suspected it could be a scam. But how could PAYPAL allow a seller to do this?
Sign #1 that shows that Paypal is not doing their job in investigating ZG Tech
Still no response from Seller ZG TECH, and the claim was in escalation level with PAYPAL. At this point we just wanted out $89.58 USD refunded for the drone. But Paypal kept saying that they had to wait for more info from ZG Tech. Wait for what info? Paypal already was aware of this seller’s scam operation and complaints since March 2018 yet Paypal could only tell us to wait. That is not what a middle man who handles the money does. So you can clearly see that Paypal is not doing their job here. On June 21st we received a letter from the post office that the package with the China Post was stuck at customs and we had to send a copy of the invoice. So we emailed that invoice and on July 6th we picked up the package and had to pay $32.88 for customs duties! So now we were at $122.46 USD We emailed all this including images to Paypal and they never responded. And once again no response from Paypal. Paypal was clearly not doing their job and showed no interest in helping.
Upon opening the package that came from an address in The Netherlands, I saw that the Drone was not the one advertised not even close to it. I searched for it by the name (S9 drone) on the box and found it was a $20 junk toy that did not even work properly. I found this info on various sites in China for the S9 drone. The drone I ordered was supposed to be the DJI Spark model. On June 7th we sent in images and receipts to PAYPAL and no response. Now I was really upset and called PAYPAL and their rep calmed me down and said don't worry you money is safe and you will be refunded. So he escalated the claim and change it from late shipping to not as described status. After hanging up I did some more investigating since Paypal was not doing their Job quick enough and discovered a PAYPAL Community Disputes and Limitation post with the title ZG TECHNOLOGY CO LIMITED on here on here on Paypal with disputes against ZG TECH that had been going on since March 2018. Now I felt used and that Paypal knew all about this and never told us back on June 13th when we placed the claim. SHAME ON PAYPAL for that. You can find the link on here or by doing a search on the internet. I found it on Facebook under angry and upset folks that had been scammed also from ZG TECH and PAYPAL.
Sign #2 that shows that Paypal is protecting this scam seller ZG TECH
Yesterday July 9th, Paypal emailed us saying to return the worthless Drone that does not even work back to the scam artist seller ZG TECH and that is when I researched the return address. Here you can see that Paypal blocks the Netherland’s address of ZG TECH to protect this scam seller which is wrong because everyone should be aware of this. Anyway just run a search on the address on your package and you will see what I am talking about.
The return address from the Netherlands on the package read
<Removed by Paypal>
The Netherlands (Schiedam area)
The results of this so called legitimate return address that does not exist were numerous reports from Ebay and Paypal that came up with that address in the Netherlands. NOW I KNEW THAT THIS WAS A WELL ORGANIZED SCAM and possible PAYPAL was in on it or an inside job. OPEN YOUR EYES PAYPAL!
Sign #3 that shows that Paypal is protecting this scam seller ZG TECH
So on July 9th I called Paypal again because the message on the claim said to return the package to some address in China. The address was in Chinese. So now I am have to understand Chinese and be an expert at shipping to China. My question is why should I have to ship to China if the package came from the Netherlands. But wait it gets better. The first Paypal rep has no idea of how to help me so she transfers me to a Specialist who tells me that she will email the scam seller so he can translate the address into English. So still the specialist after analyzing everything tells me she needs to follow procedure even though it seems like a scam. So when I ask her are you helping this scam seller she replies “no we just need to protect the seller as well as the buyer”. So that made no sense. I then asked if she was going to cover the return shipping and she said she would send me a promo link to cover return shipping up to $30 USD.
After carefully thinking why did the package come from the Netherlands and why it took 15 days to arrive to us when it was supposed to have been shipped express within 7-10 business days which is what we paid for. Post only takes about a week from the Netherlands to this part of Europe. So the seller already had a return there in the Netherlands from other scammed clients and shipped one of those returns to us to buy time. And now this fraudster ZG Technology wants us to return the drone to China where he originally bought it. Also if you analyze the video for the drone you can see a blond guy probably from the Netherlands and an Asian with half of his face covered who is probably from China. So there is never any new merchandise just a bunch of returns being reshipped and returned and then reshipped. Floating returnable merchandise is what this scam should be called. And they use Paypal because the return policy works for this type of scam. BUT DON NOT GIVE UP THAT EASY AND PLACE YOUR CLAIM AND LINK THIS POST TO YOUR COMPLAINT TO BACK YOU UP. BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON BUT PAYPAL HAS NOT REALIZE IT YET.
Paypal has lost their mind if they think that the return address of this scammer seller really exists. So it looks like we will be getting our refund in another 30 days. (Update July 24: Paypal refunded us today July 24th. 48 days after we made the purchase on June 6th and )
This case seems more like PAYPAL has been scammed by ZG TECHNOLOGY and now they want to see if anyone actually takes the time to complain and try and get their hard earned money back.
PAYPAL as the trusted middle man money handler should be responsible and from all the facts presented here is to blame for not having removed this seller ZG Tech back in March 2018. Also there are signs that show that Paypal is protecting this fraud seller and helping them to stall. (UPDATE July 24: Paypal's policy needs to be redone and a Class Action Lawsuit is for sure coming against them since Paypal was and is aware of the fraudulent seller and still wont close his account or refund the folks that have been robbed.)
PAYPAL Refund everyone's money and live up to your reputation!
Good luck to everyone, don't give up. Call Paypal and argue but make sure you document everything if you want to win. <removed>
Jesus and Mary
Post edited by Moderator to comply with Community guideline.