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I purchased an item for $150 from a company in Hong Kong/China. They immediately mailed me something worth around $14 (per an identical item I found on Amazon), which is not even close to what they had agreed to sell me. I paid by PayPal for the purchase, and went to the resolution centre to get a refund. The seller tells Amazon that they will refund my money when they get the item they shipped to me back in their hands.
This is where the scam begins. PayPal advises me that they have found in my favour, and that I will need to ship the item back to the seller, and use a shipping method that allows tracking, and to provide PayPal with the tracking number for the shipment. Now, because of that stipulation for tracking, it is either impossible or financially impossible to comply. Canada Post does not even provide an option for tracking a shipment to Hong Kong/China, and DHL, FedEx, and UPS all charge well in excess of $200 for any kind of shipping to that location... and I'm talking about a small item the size of a pen, with packaging that is 3"x8"x1" in size.
Then, to add insult to injury, PayPal makes it nearly impossible to contact PayPal to discuss the issue. I have offered to credit the seller $20 for the cost of the item, and double what they paid for postage to get it here. I would then be reimbursed $130 from the seller. But so far... crickets... PayPal won't respond.
The sellers full well know that so long as they send some piece of junk that they can claim needs to be returned to obtain credit on purchase, that they have North American buyers locked into a no-win situation, and PayPal is fully supporting this kind of activity.
I have had good luck with earlier purchases from China via eBay. That is where I went wrong in this scenario, as I purchased direct from the seller. In the future, learn from my mistake and only purchase from sites like eBay where you have a purchase guarantee in place that can be honoured if something goes wrong. PayPal is great for processing payments, but they are fraud conspirators when it comes to how they collaborate with Chinese scamming companies and fraudulent sales practices.
Paypal do act when they get enough disputes filed against companies.
However in China it is dead easy to change a company name and open another website and start over and paypal would have no way of linking them until they start getting disputes again.
That is why they provide buyer protection BUT that protection is not a 100% guarantee for everything so that is where buyers must research who they buy from first to check them out.
Also never buy 'bargains' from 'china' advertised on 'social media' as you said Ebay etc is better for those types of sales.
And personally I always fund my paypal payments via a credit card, then if I do get caught out and like you postage is too much to return item then i can do a chargeback instead via my card company.
Not acceptable, and just dodging responsibility. What I had suggested as a fair and reasonable compromise (even if it means paying for junk that I don't need), is something PayPal could enforce, if they chose to do so. Less shilling and more supporting of paying customers is the honorable way for PayPal to handle this issue. PayPal choosing to enforce a need to provide a tracking number is what plays directly into the scammer's hands.
Paypal buyer protection can never be a 100% coverall, so in the event of a dispute you need to bear in mind possible return trackable costs before you buy from that seller / item / country.
Paypal state this >>
PayPal is not obliged to reimburse you for any costs that you incur to comply with any of PayPal’s requests for cooperation for the purpose of resolving the problem (including, without limitation, costs that you incur to return a SNAD item to the Payment Recipient or another party as PayPal requests), although sometimes it may reimburse these costs.
Although they will compensate you for some of the cost if you have activated this at some point before you made that transaction .....
SO IF YOU DIDN'T CHECK WHO YOU BOUGHT FROM DID YOU AT LEAST ACTIVATE THAT LINK TO GET HELP WITH RETURN SHIPPING COSTS???
OR PROTECT YOURSELF BY.......
You also have the option to do a chargeback via your card issuer instead of a Paypal dispute if you funded your Paypal payment via a credit card.
So once again, you don't respond to the offer I've made, and the main point about mandating a need for a product return and tracking making it financially impossible to resolve an issue. You merely just attempt to deflect responsibility, which just adds insult to injury. If that's your only purpose here, please don't waste my time by replying with more of the same.
I get it. PayPal willingly and knowledgeably collaborates with fraudulent companies. No amount of excuses waives the behaviour, and the provision of excuses merely reinforces and confirms the fact that PayPal well knows what they're doing.
The counter offer has been passed back to the seller, but given all of PayPal's dispute responses are computer generated I doubt very much if anything positive comes out of this. All the seller has to do is say they don't accept the counter-solution, and I'm stuck having paid $150 for a $14 piece of junk they mailed me, and by continuing to work with the vendor, PayPal will be supporting their fraudulent activity.
I have used PayPal extensively for many years now, and this is the only dispute I've had to request assistance with. I'm starting to realize the convenience of PayPal may not be worth the risk, and I seriously need to re-evaluate whether I continue to utilize the service after this dispute is resolved.
I can only tell you how the system works as it stands and not how 'you would like it to work'.
Paypal offer to reimburse you some or all of your shipping costs which is a good offer in these circumstances.
If you didn't activate the link to claim those costs back then that again is your problem.....as well as not checking who you bought from .......as well as not funding your purchase with a credit card.
There are several problems with this, and once again, you're deflecting, rather than acknowledging there is a problem with the process itself.
But, for entertainment value, here's some additional background.
First off, disputing the charge with the credit card company only works if the chargeback is initiated before payment is processed on the card. Therefore, the card owner either chooses to pay interest on all their card purchases, or has a very short window in which to initiate a chargeback complaint. The window is too short to allow for product shipment and establishment that there is indeed an actual problem.
Yes, I have what PayPal refers to as buyer protection, and as such it's in the Resolution Centre as of several days ago. But this "buyer protection" is where things fall apart. Even though PayPal has found in my favour regarding my issue with the seller, the mandated processes to get my reimbursement via the Resolution Centre is what makes the whole the whole thing nonsensical. I have NEVER been offered or even heard of a partial or whole reimbursement of return shipping costs, and who in their right mind is going to spend $200 to obtain tracked shipping of an item?
Feel free to reply again in an attempt to reflect the problems back to me, as I know that's your function here. I do honestly have pity for you, since this is apparently what you get paid to do. You deserve better.
One quick follow up regarding the comments and "solutions" you offered. The guaranteed shipping costs, per PayPal policies, offers a whole whopping maximum of $30 towards return shipping costs. With the case of shipping to China, where the costs will always be in excess of $200, just how do you envision this as any sort of real assistance? Great for products sold in North America, but then again, most options to ship with tracking even in North America will greatly exceed $30. Seriously. Insulting.
I'm not deflecting anything, I am just telling you what options you have.
What you would like to have is meaningless as it is not offered is it !
1. Most card issuers give you 6 months from payment to issue chargebacks.
2. The 'return shipping on us' return postage option has been on your and everyone elses paypal accounts for about 2 years now, sitting there waiting for you to activate it plus all the publicity about it, I activated mine 2 years ago.
You are correct though in that no one would pay a high amount for return postage costs if its uneconomic but then why did you buy an expensive item from Hong Kong China in the first place. If you had read up on Paypal buyer protection first you would have seen that if the item arrives misdescribed that to get a refund you would have to return it. Then having that information you chose to go ahead anyway? Paypal offers some buyer protection but its up to you to risk assess your own transactions.
3. I see that when you don't like facts being pointed out to you you decide to accuse me of being paid by paypal, never heard that one before You don't read up on buyer protection and you don't read what the word volunteer or community forum means.
And no my function here is definately not to support Paypal, but I am here to give you the gist of how paypal works and I have the right to voice my own opinion on things. On this occasion my opinion is that you should take responsibility for your own actions and not expect paypal to bail you out.
I have never been ripped off using paypal but then i read up on buyer protection, I fund my purchases via a card and I risk assess my transactions ie i don't buy cheap 'bargains' from China.