Ruling in favor of Merchant, Wrong decision

[sammyhart]

I paid Merchant, did not get item, Merchant provided a tracking number showing delivered, The tracking number clearly showed a mistake, It was delivered 2 days before I placed the order, I gave the information to Paypal, they ruled in favor of Merchant because it shows delivered, I went to post office where I could get more information, It wasn't even addressed to me, they gave paypal someone else tracking number in my City, now I can't do another resolution

[Neaituppi]

Send a message in the message center, and try to get to speak to someone from Paypal live in the message center. They are extremely helpful there, instead of the resolution center which is probably manned by bots and some intern that is hating life, and wants to see it all burn. lol

I used the message center yesterday, and they were great. If you get someone live. 

[Jeff_Savoie]

I've been waiting to speak with a live person, via the message center, since 5:54 am this morning and it's now almost 4 pm (*I originally contacted them at 7:30 last night, and finally just went to bed without a reply).

I'm trying to contact them because I'm in a similar situation as the OP... given a tracking number for someone else's delivery, and PayPal has denied my claim.

I DO NOT share your opinion that the message center is a viable system for resolution...

"If you get someone live." That's a BIG IF!

The OP lost a dispute claim over a package that was delivered BEFORE they ever even ordered it... and PayPal is ok with that!?!?  ...there's absolutely nothing great about that!

[Neaituppi]

Yeah, I might have just got lucky. It looks like I just logged on, when someone from Paypal was responding to my message. But my point was, if you get someone live, chances are they will be able to do a lot more and be more helpful, then if you go through the Resolution center where a lot of it is automated.

Or maybe not, if you are really hostile and critical about it, like you are with me. I could tell by their responses, they really appreciated my patience, and didn't just vent angrily on them, because I got taken in by a fake scam site. 

[Jeff_Savoie]

@NeaituppiI apologize if I came off as hostile, because I certainly never meant to be. Slightly sarcastic with a twist of humor, maybe.

I've spoken with several live human beings over the last week or so of trying to resolve my issues, and I was polite and patient with all of them. If you see my other post I stated we "may be dealing with inexperienced and/or overworked agents" so I actually very much appreciate them.
*And I'll fully admit, to a degree I am venting a bit, here (hoping for a sympathetic ear maybe).

BUT... two and a half hours ago the nicest most qualified and understanding live person I have spoken with during this entire ordeal supposedly transferred me to a Disputes specialist... and I've been sitting here waiting ever since.

Yeah, you might have just got lucky... and I didn't. 😉

[Jeff_Savoie]

For the record:

Over the course of the 18 years and the hundreds of transactions I've taken part in, as a PayPal/Ebay customer, I have only ever had two disputes... the first as a seller and this most recent one as a buyer.

In the first case the buyer changed his shipping address (listed in his profile) after the package had arrived, then filed a claim. It took much time and effort on my part to convince PayPal to look into that case deeply enough to prove I was right - and they were so gracious as to offer me a 50% refund, which I was able to negotiate to 75%.
In that case, as in this one, the assistance I got from UPS was invaluable.

Until 10 days ago you could not have convinced me that PayPal didn't stand, first and foremost, behind the buyer.

Today, after seeing dozens of cases dismissed based on non-linear timelines and substandard investigation/information there's no way you could convince me that PayPal stands behind the buyer at all, anymore.

PayPal's customer protections, afforded to both buyers and sellers alike, has been the very cornerstone of the customer confidence that has kept the lights on for all these years...

In 2020, customer protection died of COVID-19.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that!

[Neaituppi]

That's amazing! You should do that as a traveling theater soliloquy! 😊

Call it the Solipsistic plight of Resolution.

Or just lighten up. I just got taken in by a selling scam that I should have known better, because I have been studying them for years, so I wouldn't be taken in.

But I still got a smile inside, because I learned a lot more from it, I got to interact with people in this community, that I would have never before.

I learned that to never assume a secure site means it is okay. Have a think about it, before you click checkout. And the embarrassing reality that who made the mistake was myself. Paypal is like a kind of bank, all they do is transfer your money at your request. Just looking at these forums in the last few days, dozens of complaints come in every hour, and that is just the ones that post. And some of them look like scammers themselves trying to get help to continue a scam. There is no way to know, or assume what they say is what happened, and Paypal has to go through hundreds of them, from all around the world. And then Covid. They can't answer phones anymore until that is clear. It annoyed me too, when I tried to call, but then I came to my senses. Paypal doesn't care about the customers, because of what is going on with a deadly contagious virus, is a pretty harsh judgement. In 18 years, you dealt with two. In 8 years, I dealt with one. But Paypal will continue to deal with dozens a day long after this. 

Now I am going to bring this soliloquy on the road. 🤗

[Jeff_Savoie]

@Neaituppi  It isn't that they "can't answer the phones" they've chosen not to set things up that way.

I had a question related to my new Canon camera and some accessories I'd like to purchase to go along with it... I called and a super nice guy answered the phone and all of my questions, from his living room.

Call forwarding isn't rocket science.

And yes educations have a cost... but if I ever get my $100 back I'll have earned every penny of it and maybe more (*I've got a lot of hours into chasing PayPal in circles already) and if I never see a dime of it I have learned some valuable lessons.

But... when and if I do purchase some new photography gear you can rest assured I won't be using PayPal to do it... that's lesson #1 here! 🙂

And you're correct blame can be spread all around in most of these cases. I deserve some like you do, for going ahead with a transaction that seemed too good to be true. I also deserve some for not immediately trying to cancel the transaction when PayPal notified me that they had sent the money to China (*instead of Florida).
UPS deserves some, for not providing complete addresses for tracking numbers - just a city the item was delivered to.
Amazon deserves some for allowing access to tracking numbers - my "package" was actually an Amazon transaction successfully made by one of my neighbors.

But when PayPal denies a claim for a package delivered before it was ever ordered they hold the trump card. The system is broken, there's no denying that!

[Neaituppi]

You are right @Jeff_Savoie . That is the truth. I was trying to be open to the  possibility that Paypal is just over run by complaints, and with not being able to answer the phones, it is even harder. Which is still true. But after the scam seller supplied them with a "used" tracking number for some address in the same town I am in, unrelated to my delivery, and Paypal accepted it without pause. Closed the case, and have barred any further pursuit from me.

Going through it, just the people who post on this community, the dozens a day that say they didn't receive what they purchased, the scam seller gave paypal a used tracking number, and their case was closed and they were unable to open another or pursue any further. I even tried to send more messages in the center, and they were immediately deleted. So if this is happening as often as it is, and is exactly the same situation with multiple paypal buyers, over and over again. Then I can only conclude that Paypal is in on it, or really incompetent. I don't think they are incompetent. It was also funny how easily paypal was able to get a hold of the scam seller so easily, while there is no phone number, address on the site. Only a message option, which they did not answer for me. I was talking to my bank mamanger, because part of the charge went to my bank, and he said that is because they have a business contract. Paypal has a business contract with these scam sites that sell really high end guitars to people for under a hundred, then don't deliver them. So from now on, I no longer will do personal purchases through Paypal. I was going to dump my account with them altogether, but I will only keep it for my ebay store, so other buyers can go through it. Because I am not a scam seller. I got a perfect star rating. 

[Jeff_Savoie]

@Neaituppi 

Well now I feel extra bad - I thought you'd "gotten lucky" and had reached a reasonable outcome.

And I feel even worse to have to tell you that I did. As a matter of fact, at this point, I have $200 sitting in my bank account over this *my bank almost immediately credited me the $100 (on the same Friday I reported it to them) and I doubt coincidentally PayPal refunded my money the following Monday (*probably right after they were contacted by my bank's loss protection department - given that the person I spoke to at my bank was fully aware of this type of scam).

I'm in a quandary as far as what to do about Ebay... I too have a 100% rating there, but because PayPal and Ebay are interconnected I'm having trouble using either of them anymore.
*The fact that I found sufficient resolution does NOT excuse PayPal's current policies... I cannot keep swimming with the school just because I escaped being eaten by the SHARK!