Return Item to China scammers - Paypal offers no protection it seems

dbsand
Contributor
Contributor

Now that I look at the community, I see this is a common issue. Scammers send fake or not-as-described items from China. Then when we ask for a refund, buyer needs to ship back the item, to an address with 42 Chinese characters in it (not exaggerating) and shipping would cost more than the item cost. I paid for a $25 item and got sent a $3 item, and not worth anyone's time/money to ship back. I guess they just have my $25 now along with many others. Nice "protection" Paypal, I will be using you as little as possible in the future. I can't believe you allow sellers to continue transacting after false advertising and shady business practices. A dollar is a dollar I guess.

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@dbsand 

 

Yet if you had activated the below link you would be covered for that return shipping cost and could claim it back.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/returns

 

Maybe try reading or asking first before you jump in with both feet.

Secondly try not to buy tat from China then you won't get scammed.


Chinese Web Sites or on Facebook easy to spot so buyer beware.

1. No return address on the returns policy............thats because the site will look as if its in your country (where they despatch goods from) BUT they will ask for returns to go back to China (returns depot) at a shipping cost nearly always more than the item is worth.
2. No contact telephone number............if you click on contact the most you will get is webmail or an email address.
3. No company address information.
4. Great looking items at bargain prices that turn out to be tat.




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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@dbsand 

 

Yet if you had activated the below link you would be covered for that return shipping cost and could claim it back.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/returns

 

Maybe try reading or asking first before you jump in with both feet.

Secondly try not to buy tat from China then you won't get scammed.


Chinese Web Sites or on Facebook easy to spot so buyer beware.

1. No return address on the returns policy............thats because the site will look as if its in your country (where they despatch goods from) BUT they will ask for returns to go back to China (returns depot) at a shipping cost nearly always more than the item is worth.
2. No contact telephone number............if you click on contact the most you will get is webmail or an email address.
3. No company address information.
4. Great looking items at bargain prices that turn out to be tat.




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Kudos / Solution appreciated.
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dbsand
Contributor
Contributor

I didn't read through all the protection policies and procedures before purchasing the $25 item, I guess that's my bad. I just assumed I was somewhat safe with Paypal's "protection" they advertise if something were to happen. I didn't know to "activate" this protection before clicking "dispute" I guess I'm just **bleep**.

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@dbsand 

 

You don't need to read it avoid buying from scam websites online.

What I posted was what I have noticed on those websites, which is why I avoided them.

Paypal gives 'some' buyer protection but its not a 100% coverall / insurance policy. You have to read up on it and then risk assess your transactions.

If you pay with goods/services you get that protection AND paypal will reimburse you for your return postage costs if you have activated the link i gave you above.


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Middie
Contributor
Contributor

This is very interesting.  None of the people I communicated with at PayPal offered this as a solution. After I explained the problem with PayPal, they told me there was nothing to be done.  And I threw away the worthless items I foolishly bought.

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@Middie 

 

When you phone customer services you probably get a bored 'call centre agent reading from an online script'.

Users on here can give advice dependent on their own experience over the years. 


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ScooterB
Contributor
Contributor

I was scammed twice in the same manner (possibly a third one that is off for two weeks for Chinese New Years). Two completely documented cases of false advertising purchased from links on Instagram through American based websites, paid to an American Company name but was notified at the time of Payment that another American sounding company name would appear on my PayPal bill.

 

In both cases the sellers offered at first a partial refund and eventually a full refund if I paid return shipping (approximately $40 for overseas, insured, confirmation receipt air mail) if it was even possible to use the return address they send you in Chinese (which is it not unless you have a friend who can reliable re-write the address in Chinese for you). In both cases the return shipping costs of course exceeded the full refund price. This is how Pay Pals policy protects the victims of an open and shut case of fraud?

 

Pay Pal's Resolution Center Policy without exception requires the buyer to pay all return shipping costs even in cases of false advertising and fraud. Pay Pal's "reasoning" is the seller paid the initial shipping charge of approximately $5 (China Air with corporate discount account) so despite the fact that Pay Pal KNOWS these Chinese companies are committing false advertising, consumer fraud, overseas wire fraud and overseas mail fraud under an assumed American shell company, it is only fair that the victim pay anywhere from $40-$80 plus return shipping to an undecipherable address (impossible for most American consumers to write). This appears to me to be all by intentional design to keep money flowing into Pay Pal and fraudulent overseas sellers at American consumers expense.

 

These fraudulent overseas sellers know Pay Pal's policy so Pay Pal has knowingly and I must assume intentionally (due to lack of corrective action) set up the framework for overseas fraudulent enterprises to thrive and get rich while Pay Pal of course gets a cut of the fraudulent business transactions for their service. 

 

Unfortunately I am not a Lawyer and I am sure Pay Pals lawyers have found all the loop holes to keep Pay Pal from any just legal consequences however I find Pay Pals complete lack of interest in correcting fraudulent false advertising claims by enforcing any financial penalty against Chinese companies committing fraud to make Pay Pal complicit in the fraud and co-conspirators in the fraud in regards to the intent of consumer protection laws. *Note to Pay Pal - I am not making a public claim that Pay Pal has committed illegal activities in the process but stating the obvious that these activities SHOULD be illegal as they violate the intent of consumer protection laws and anything that resembles justice. " The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

 

When you contact the company about the item not remotely matching the description yet a third company is the actual seller in China and the other two companies are shell companies. Previously I have used Pay Pal without issue for 20 years mostly for e-bay but started using Pay Pal more for buying things from companies I have seen advertisements for on Facebook or Instagram that I was not familiar with and believed Pay Pals vague claims of buyer protection (unless you go looking for the fine print at the time of purchase) was designed to and would protect me from fraud. Additionally I preferred the idea of logging into Paly Pal to make my purchase through an unfamiliar sellers link than providing my direct debit or credit card number. 

 

Since I had previously rejected any resolution regarding myself being responsible for any return shipping fees due wholly to an intentionally fraudulent purchase based on false advertising before contacting the Resolution Center AND made that explicitly clear at the time I initiated my claim with the Resolution Center, the entire process of going through the Resolution Center was wasted time and energy to add insult to injury. At NO point did anyone with the Resolution Center indicate in either case that despite the fraudulent nature of this transaction that Pay Pal's Policy was to require me to pay return shipping until my claim was denied. Their only response was to notify the seller had offered a full refund with return shipment of item and requested a tracking number with no other available action on my part to respond within the Resolution Center.  Again I had rejected this offer before and explicitly at the time of my initial claim.

 

This is especially frustrating because I would have never made either of these purchases had I been made aware they were actually coming from China and from Chinese companies for which there is no US legal jurisdiction to protect consumers. 

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@ScooterB 


Chinese Web Sites or on Facebook easy to spot so buyer beware.

1. No return address on the returns policy............thats because the site will look as if its in your country (where they despatch goods from) BUT they will ask for returns to go back to China (returns depot) at a shipping cost nearly always more than the item is worth.
2. No contact telephone number............if you click on contact the most you will get is webmail or an email address.
3. No company address information.
4. Great looking items at bargain prices that turn out to be tat.


HOWEVER you may still have the option to do a charge back if you funded your paypal payment via a credit card.
Also Paypal may contribute towards return costs IF you have activated the below link (if available in your country).
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/returns



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ScooterB
Contributor
Contributor

Thanks.

 

I activated the link provided but will most likely go straight to my Debit or Credit card company after my recent experience. The amount of hours I have wasted connected three different companies together for each item, capturing screen shots, images of the item I received, going through the seller and then the Resolution center was easily 10 hours per item or more.

 

I did already get the most egregious one refunded through my debit card company, will do the second one and changed my payment method to a credit card for additional protection.

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DCMoe13
Member
Member

I thought PayPal's buyer protection would protect me from scammers, but it is the other way around! I bought an item from a seller I thought was in the UK. There was nothing on the website to indicate they were based in China. I received cheap junk five months later and was told I had to return it--to China-- for my "full" refund even though this would cost almost as much as I had paid for the items. A clearly fraudulent seller who has undoubtedly received tons of complaints was treated like an honest broker and I was left holding the bag. I had a terrible experience and so I decided to write about it. If you want to contribute your experience, please contact me through my website at christinemcondo.com/contact.php. All responses will be anonymized to protect your privacy.

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