PayPal's decision in a dispute with a scammer--do I have any recourse?

jillier
Member
Member

I ordered two items from a company that were advertised through Instagram at a deep discount. I received a shipping notification fairly quickly that those items had been sent. A few weeks later, I received a package from a company in China containing a small yellow pillowcase. At first I thought it was a mistake, and that I'd been sent something I didn't order. When I googled the company address, I found a message board where a lot of people had experienced the same thing.

 

I saw the following message which seems to explain what happened: "If you have received something near worthless that fits into a small package or envelope from [redacted return address in China] chances are you have been scammed. This criminal has been advertising on Facebook and Instagram popular products worth a few hundred US Dollars at a deep discount. Once you make a purchase, they will send you something worthless and cheap to mail. After you complain that they have sent you the wrong product, they will offer you a refund of a few dollars, a fraction of what you paid; or claim that they will mail you the correct product once you return the incorrect product to them. If you try to do this return, they will claim never to have received it. If you try to get a refund from PayPal or your credit-card issuer, they will claim that this is a case of delivery error, and all will be sorted out once you successfully return the incorrect product. They are trying to look legitimate to PayPal and credit-card issuers, whilst trying to wear you down in an endless return loop, in which you never get the correct product or a refund."

 

With this information, I still opened a dispute. I figured if I could have a PayPal rep read documentation that clearly shows this company has a pattern of scamming, they'd simply refund me. As is protocol, I first messaged the company through the PayPal dispute system. I told them I knew of the scam and simply wanted all of my money back. Instead they sent me a boilerplate reply saying, "Dear, We are sorry for the problem of the product. We checked it for you, the worker in our warehouse they made a mistake. They choose the wrong one for you, and we hope you give us a chance. We offer you 2 solutions. 1)You can keep the product, and we will give you a 15% refund as our compensation. 2)If you can’t accept it, please help it return to us, it may cost you nearly 30 dollars. We're doing a small business and can't cover the shipping cost and additional fee again. We really hope to get your kind understanding.Which solution do you choose? Waiting for your reply. Have a good day"

 

At this point I escalated to PayPal. Last night, PayPal issued the decision that I could have a full refund but first I'd have to mail the item back to the seller, and once the seller confirmed they'd received it, I'd be issued my money. First of all, shipping that worthless pillowcase back to China would cost me $25. Second, I do not believe the China-based company would ever admit to receiving the return. I feel frustrated that the scam has played out exactly as the company had hoped, and that I have no recourse through PayPal--a large company that should protect its buyers. 

 

I've tried calling PayPal but it is literally impossible to speak to a human. Do I have any recourse here? 

 

Given this company's reputation as a scammer, I do not wish to attempt to resolve with them. I just want my money refunded.

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@jillier 

 

In the event of a dispute you need to bear in mind possible return trackable costs before you buy from that seller / item / country because....

Paypal state this >>
PayPal is not obliged to reimburse you for any costs that you incur to comply with any of PayPal’s requests for cooperation for the purpose of resolving the problem (including, without limitation, costs that you incur to return a SNAD item to the Payment Recipient or another party as PayPal requests), although sometimes it may reimburse these costs.

Although they will compensate you for some of the cost if you have activated this at some point before you made that transaction.
https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/FAQ3544

You also have the option to do a chargeback via your card issuer instead of a Paypal dispute if you funded your Paypal payment via a credit card.




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9 REPLIES 9
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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@jillier 

 

In the event of a dispute you need to bear in mind possible return trackable costs before you buy from that seller / item / country because....

Paypal state this >>
PayPal is not obliged to reimburse you for any costs that you incur to comply with any of PayPal’s requests for cooperation for the purpose of resolving the problem (including, without limitation, costs that you incur to return a SNAD item to the Payment Recipient or another party as PayPal requests), although sometimes it may reimburse these costs.

Although they will compensate you for some of the cost if you have activated this at some point before you made that transaction.
https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/FAQ3544

You also have the option to do a chargeback via your card issuer instead of a Paypal dispute if you funded your Paypal payment via a credit card.




Advice is voluntary.
Kudos / Solution appreciated.
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jillier
Member
Member

@kernowlass thanks for the feedback. I'd just discovered the return shipping reimbursement program from PP and was going to go that route; however, I did not activate it before the purchase in question, I've just activated it today. So, because of this, I *cannot* use this service for this transaction, is that right? 

 

I think I am going to try the chargeback via my bank. I hadn't considered that. Thank you. 

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scammed8
New Community Member

scam my self. paypal is useless, cannot talk to anyone. seller website is a fake. did not receive my package got a fake tracking number stated I had received my package the day before I paid my money, red flag. contact paypal could not cancel transaction, paypal was no help resolution center said case closed. paypal should be closed as well, they are scammers as well!!!!

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zionn
Contributor
Contributor

My advice is to cancel your account with Paypal which Iam planning to do. There are other companies out there  that you can use to send and receive money with a better track record than Paypal. Paypal  used to be better but in recent years has lost its edge in this industry.  Paypal will not help a buyer who was been a victim of fraud. I filed a dispute of a case back in June 2020 and more than two months later Paypal claims  the matter is still under investigation. Paypal is lying. In my case I wanted a refund because the seller failed to send the items I paid $131 for . Paypal claims it is investigating the case and waiting to hear from the seller.  Unknown to me it was a company in China although the website I purchased from was an English named company. A total fraud. Everytime I check for the status of the refund in my paypal account Paypal keeps extending the date to hear fom the seller. its been over two months since I filed the dispute and Paypal has refused to respond and there is no way on the Paypal site to even contact Paypal nor is Paypal answering its phone. I am going to close my account with Paypal as a result, because Payplal misrepresented that they stand by thier promise to assure that buyers receive their items.
Carolyn <Removed>

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NanaRo65
Contributor
Contributor

I’m dealing with the same issue. I ordered a $67 mirror and received a package of 3 paper face mask, which I would never use, who knows what they may have sprayed on them. I dread I did not read this section before I declined their offer to refund me $57 of my $67 now I will probably be out of all my money because I absolutely refuse to go through the aggravation of mailing these stupid mask back to them. I will also be canceling my PayPal account because they are definitely no help and the fact that they continue to allow these people to do business with them knowing that they are scammers.

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holaclara
Contributor
Contributor

I thought the offer of an electric bike for under €30 was probably too good to be true but felt confident that I would be protected by PayPal if it was a scam.  Guess what - it was a scam, but Paypal found in the sellers favour.  I received cheap plastic sunglasses in a parcel that agreed with my shipping order.  I contacted the seller who said that demand exceeded supply and they hoped I would be happy with the alternative!!!  I opened a dispute and sent a copy of the parcel with product and corresponding numbers.  I returned the goods to China at my expense and sent proof of this.  Paypal kept moving the expected resolution date and eventually closed the case in favour of the fraudster.  I have tried contacting Paypal but their is no longer an Appeal Button and the Contact Us system takes you round in circles.  I have tried contacting the seller (EVERFOREVER - address Middlesex but based in China) but the email address no longer exists.  PayPal obviously takes a random view of claims and I now feel robbed. 

SHAME ON YOU PAYPAL!!

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kernowlass
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@holaclara 

 

Which dispute did you open?

Only normally paypal tells you when you WIN a dispute when to return the item and you get a refund when tracking shows as delivered?


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holaclara
Contributor
Contributor

Dispute ref :  PP-D-73205392 showing delivered to supplier 4th August.  I should therefore get a refund!

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JAS1946
New Community Member

I have the same issue, denied a claim because seller said they had sent item, they did send an item a chain instead of a battery powered hand saw, tried emailing the company but get returned unable to send. Tired Paypalfor ages even on the message center but Paypal do not use that anymore, so no way to get in touch with any one, feeling so frustrated about it all  

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