PayPal is Complicit With a Chinese Online Scam

[proege]

There is a growing scheme where Chinese web sites advertise items for sale but send something worthless via First Class mail to some other address.  This gives them a tracking number that indicates delivery to the Customer's zip code. By sending the envelope to a different address, there is nothing to alert the buyer that anything has "arrived."  In my case, the "seller" sent a First Class envelope to someone in my town (I have no way of finding out to whom). USPS tracking does not capture the details of the package, except class and destination zip code.  The item I ordered weighs about 10 lb, well above the 16 ounce First Class weight limit - but PayPal considers any tracking record to your town as proof that the seller met his obligation.  It's very difficult to reach anyone to register a complaint, but when you do, they are powerless to listen to logic or take action.  I'm sure this scam has already yielded millions of dollars stolen from PayPal customers - it seems the company is complicit, with their illusion of protecting customers encouraging people to feel safe.  It's a good idea to look elsewhere for a financial system.

[c00lm0n]

It's the way Paypal handles the disputes: basically if the seller can produce a tracking number to your zip code they side with the scammer. I never received anything and UPS tracking number showed whatever they sent was signed for by Vern.  Well, there ain't no Vern here.  Not to mention the weight of the item shipped was only .3 pounds.  The Yeti cooler though I was I buying weighs 30lbs empty.  **bleep** Paypal I'm done.  I've been with them for almost 20 years too but that doesn't count for anything. 

[c00lm0n]

So I finally got through to someone, probably a bot, via chat and they suggest I select 'Appeal' under action drop down menu in the closed cases section. Well what do you know, I don't have that option. The only option I have is to view the closed case. LET'S FILE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST PAYPAL!! NOT KIDDING.

[mi4me2]

YES

[BillyE1952]

Same here. Bought a $19.97 item and received an item worth about $1.00 with a message from the seller telling me that this is the item they want to send me. After emailing Seller, he said if I return the item he would give me a refund. I filed a dispute with PP. PP said to return the item for a refund and provided a address in China that did not match USPS required format. I’m sure a bogus address from the seller mocking PP for their stupidity. I contacted seller by email for valid address. Got what appeared to be a valid mailing address. Cost to return the $1.00 item was $35.00 to get a $19.97 refund. The seller also stated in the email that even if I got confirmation of delivery for item, he would say he did not get it and no refund would be issued. Unbelievable! PP ruled in the Chinese Guy favor because I did not return the item that I did not buy. A complete scam by people who found a loop hole in PP policy and PP is complicit in the scam. There should be a way to file a class action suit against PP for fraud.

[John363]

Paypal are supposed to comply with UK trading laws. Accordingly, the onus is on the sender to provide a prepaid postage or otherwise arrange collection.

Since striking out with Paypal and their blind, low IQ employees, I have tried my credit card - who said I should return the item, which would be at my cost. I've since had to remind them what the laws are regarding unsolicited goods. Since I was sent something which I didn't order I'm saying these goods are unsolicited and therefore fall into this category.

I'm awaiting their reply.

[proege]

I've had my best luck using American Express charge cards and not dealing with Paypal unless necessary.  Unfortunately, AMEX charges the vendor a higher commission than most alternatives, but I've had a few disputes over the years and they always have started out presuming the customer was right. They also are proactive to call when there is anything fishy that could indicated identity theft. Oh, and of course, try to check out Chinese vendors carefully before buying - defrauding foreigners seems to be a rapidly growing industry there. I'm not an advertiser, just somebody who has dealt with a lot of honest, and a few dishonest people over the years. 

[BillyE1952]

I had the same thing happen.  The 'Piece of **bleep**' in China that sells something makes sure the cost is less than return shipping to China.  PayPal will tell you that if you return it you will get a refund.  What a **bleep**.  In my email correspondence with the 'Piece of **bleep**', he told me that if I returned the item and received a delivery confirmation, he would say he did not get it and no refund would be issued.  That make this even more of a hoax and they are playing PayPal and PayPal is playing its users.  

[CH40AS]

I've currently got a similar dispute ongoing: paid for a computer, received a worthless plastic ring under the tracking number. Merchant name is 

I had initially submitted a "goods not received" dispute, and when the seller advised the tracking number, changed the dispute type to "not as described".  I contacted PP customer service advising this was a scam rather than a normal billing dispute, but they just told me to await the outcome of the dispute.

The information about why I'm actually disputing the charge isn't visible in the dispute history although I have made PP aware of it. 

The merchant (scammer really) offered to refund half the money, which I declined.

Using the chat function, I've now found a link to uploading additional proof, so I will upload a photograph of the item I have received under this tracking number. 

[CH40AS]

I've been contacted by resolution centre with a declaration to print, sign & scan - not great in the pandemic situation, but I went to the library, put my mask on, completed track & trace details, printed & signed and then photographed and uploaded the signed declaration.   By the way - "the item I received was of little or no value" was an option I could tick on the declaration.

All that's happened since then is that the resolution date keeps being pushed back.  The first expected resolution date that I saw was 11 September, this was then pushed back to 16 September.  At this point I queried this with customer service who advised this will "definitely" be resolved on 16 September.  By the time they wrote this message, the date had already been pushed back further to 17 September, and currently it's showing as 18 September!

Customer services today, when I chased them, suggested that I return the item to China - at a cost greater than the disputed amount! 

All this time I've been perfectly clear with PP that this is not an oversight or human error, but quite clearly a known scam.  I do not understand what they are reviewing or why they are holding on to the money I've been scammed out of.

[CH40AS]

Update: I've now won the dispute.   The key issue here really was changing the dispute type to "not as described" once the merchant had provided a tracking number.  I would have lost a "not received" dispute.

I've read of variations of this scam where the scammer just sent a package to the same post code, which was still sufficient for Paypal to find in their favour - the victims would obviously only have recourse to a "not received" dispute, which they'd lose.