PayPal is Complicit With a Chinese Online Scam

[proege]

There is a growing scheme where Chinese web sites advertise items for sale but send something worthless via First Class mail to some other address.  This gives them a tracking number that indicates delivery to the Customer's zip code. By sending the envelope to a different address, there is nothing to alert the buyer that anything has "arrived."  In my case, the "seller" sent a First Class envelope to someone in my town (I have no way of finding out to whom). USPS tracking does not capture the details of the package, except class and destination zip code.  The item I ordered weighs about 10 lb, well above the 16 ounce First Class weight limit - but PayPal considers any tracking record to your town as proof that the seller met his obligation.  It's very difficult to reach anyone to register a complaint, but when you do, they are powerless to listen to logic or take action.  I'm sure this scam has already yielded millions of dollars stolen from PayPal customers - it seems the company is complicit, with their illusion of protecting customers encouraging people to feel safe.  It's a good idea to look elsewhere for a financial system.

[PeterK987]

Another interesting version of this I just ran afoul of. The seller is indeed shipping a product but it's cheap garbage somewhat related to what you ordered but nothing at all like what they advertised. I bought a self-solving robotic Rubik's cube (turns out the video they listed on the site was youtube of a Japanese robotics developer) and instead send dollar store plastic crap.

Originally I submitted my claim thinking that Paypal would easier detect this fraud based on the numerous other complaints against the seller. However, I've been reading and it seems like they actually won't. From everything I'm seeing they have found a whole in the dispute resolution. By shipping something they are able to send you $4 of crap plus shipping and keep the other $28 dollars you paid for the item. When you contact them they offer $6-$9 dollars since they know it will cost you $20 to send the garbage back to China and take forever.

In this way they can act with impunity until a critical mass of complaints is filed and they are finally shutdown. Then they just start up again with a different name. They aren't even creative about it. Anyone that starts an account with XXXX TECHNOLOGY CO., LIMITED should be banned right away. NC TECHNOLOGY CO. LTD, AMGT TECHNOLOGY CO., LIMITED, ZG TECHNOLOGY CO. LIMITED. These forums are littered with complaints all describing the same behavior. 

Without some better method to vet those that can accept payments on Paypal they will never stop this process. They can just keep repeating it over and over and are making tons even with the crap products they ship. They never have any intention of sending any the products advertised. Regardless of the fact that they technically meet the requirements to skirt the dispute process they are engaging in fraud.

Paypal seems perfectly willing to take the transaction fees from these sellers, deny their members claims, and let them start all over again. To me this makes them complicit to the fraud as they are taking a financial gain from these individuals and hiding behind the dispute resolution policy to shield them. Unless we all take a stand to show them it costs them more from legitimate users than they can make from scammers they clearly have no intention of resolving this problem. 

If they did I wouldn't be reading posts from 2018 to today describing this same scam over and over again. Frankly I'm curious if there is grounds for a class action suit. I don't see how terms and conditions can allow you to wash your hands from profiting from felons.

[Dabel]

If you search scammers and PayPal you can read hundreds of folks that have tried and failed. I was denied because I wanted to know why I had to send it to China after buying from Texas. They sent me a canned reply telling me they are closing my request because I didn't submit the tracking number. Never did anyone answer my question. So....I filed a complaint with BBB and PayPal decided to call me, once, at my job in the middle of surgery which the surgeon would have my job if I answered, then again yesterday, while I was on airplane mode because I was in the air in a plane. Their response to my complaint is to say they've tried twice to contact me but they stand by their decision. You can read it on BBB site, Google PayPal and AZCozy scamming I think.

[PeterK987]

It seems like the only real option is to just forego the dispute and start a chargeback with the credit card company.

[4x4albert]

I will never use paypal again and I am so glad that i protected myself by credit card as well. Once the credit card company refused to pay paypal they were more inclined to refund my money i think because if they didnt the card company would not pay them.

[sheila321]

How do I do that?

[John363]

I've fallen foul of the same, I ordered a portable pressure washer, only $33 but still, it's $33. Advertised as a Dolins 40v hydroshot.

What they sent was a cheap hosepipe trigger spray worth $1.

PP refuse my claim for refund as they state that the item is "materially similar to the seller's description.

Who the heck works for PP, Stevie Wonder & Ray Charles?

I sent a copy of the email , which contained a pic of said item plus a pic of the item they sent.

Similarities, both require water, both have a hosepipe attachment, both orange/black colours.

Differences. Advertised item comes with pressure spray lance, foam spray lance, clear hose to utilise nearby pond/lake, adapter for plastic bottle, 40v battery, motorised water pump, motorised pressure booster.

Seller offered to refund if I returned the item they sent - cost me $13 to return, I'm out $46

Seller offered partial refund & keep the item they sent - I'm then out $25

Paypal refuse to refund, have closed the case and refuse further discussion - how can they not see that this is a clear case of fraud & they are complicit?

The prison sentence for driving the getaway car might not be as harsh as the bank robber's but it is still considerate. One of these days, some financial ombudsman will take away their powers, preventing them from trading and ever defrauding innocent people.

[c00lm0n]

I agree, I was just scammed this same way.  I filed a claim with my credit card company and when that is over I will be done with Paypal for good.  

[John363]

Since Paypal were of no use, I filed a claim with my credit card company - who say that they can start a claim once I return the item and the seller has signed for it!

I said that since the item sent is not what I ordered and nor is it anything like the item I ordered, surely this, then, comes under the remit of the unsolicited goods act & it is now down to the seller to send a prepaid address. basically, if they want it back, they are more than welcome to collect OR, if they send a prepaid mailer, I am more than happy to take a trip to the post office.

HOWEVER, I warned them that these sellers ask you to return parcel to specific addresses, anything turns up there, they simply refuse to sign for it - claim over.
Since Paypal operate in the UK, they are supposed to abide by UK trading laws so I've reported them to the Financial Services Authority. Apparently, they also have a license to operate as a bank and so must abide by banking laws as well!

[Housekeeper63]

I totally agree. Once I get my dispute settled through my CC company with a charge back. I am done with Paypal. I have already set up a Venmo account, and will use it or only credit card from here on out! DONE. DONE!

[sheila321]

Thank you as a community why cant we prove to them we are being scammed?