Partial refund scam

[bigoatis]

I have lost quite a bit of faith in PayPal over the pasta couple of weeks and their inability to stop people getting ripped off. In hindsight I wish I had gone with my gut instinct and returned the item when it arrived damaged. Let me start at the beginning and explain what has happened to me. I bought a grille for my car which arrived damaged. I contacted the seller who was apologetic and asked if I could fix it and they would compensate me for the damage. I wasn’t very happy but agreed to try see if I could still make use of the grille. The grille didn’t fit properly and some of the fixing tabs were shockingly flimsy. To say I was unhappy was an understatement as it had cost me £190 I expected so much better. I contacted the seller again and over the course of the next few days they agreed to rufund me £60 and for me to make alterations to the grille to make it usable. They sent me the £60 via PayPal and I went to work trying to get the grille on my car. I was still not happy with the finished fitting as it still doesn’t fit right but the fact I had accepted the partial refund I figuered I would just have to get used to it. They asked/pestered me to close my eBay case against them and leave them good feedback. Since I had agreed their terms with the refund I obliged closed my case and left feedback. I thought this would be the end but this is when the real problems started. I got a notice from PayPal that a dispute had been opened against me for none delivery of goods. Puzzled I clicked on the case and the seller was now posing as a buyer trying to claim the £60 back they had refunded me. I tried unsuccessfully to get a response from them and had no choice to escalate the case to PayPal. I included all the email conversations between me and the seller pointing out their fraudulent claim to be a buyer. A week or so went by and to my relief common sense prevailed and the money was returned to me. Again this should have been the end of it but a few days later I had another paypal claim against me from the seller for the refund they had given me this time saying it was an unauthorised transaction. This time I couldn’t respond properly due to the options that I had for the case. I did my best and referenced the previous fraudulent case brought against me. I was annoyed but since I had already won the first case I thought this would be a formality.How wrong I was! imagine my surprise and anger when the case was closed in the sellers favour. After going round in circles in the resolution centre and then again using the automated phoneline I eventually got through to somebody at customer services. I explained the situation and they got my case details up and agreed with me that the seller was trying it on to scam me out of the money. However they said they were powerless to stop it happening and my only hope is to open a new case against them asking for the £60 again. This time I had to do it through PayPal’s resolution centre which would stop them taking it back once it was paid. He told me that I should have done this in the first place. I was unaware of this as on both eBay and PayPal’s own resolution guides the first point of call is to contact the seller directly to reach a solution. I did this reached a solution and now PayPal are letting the crooks take my money off me! As of writing this I just received an update from PayPal saying that the seller will issue me a full refund. All I have to do is send the item back at my own cost and return the item in the same condition I received it! It is going to cost me close to the £60 they have already stole from me to return the item. I am confused as to why I also have to pay the return costs when not only did it come damaged it wasn’t fit for purpose. I will also struggle to return the item in the same damaged condition that it came in because I had to repair it in the first place then make alterations so it would fit. I was careful (or so I thought) not to do anything to it until I had confirmation the would give me some money back and upon receipt of the refund. Sorry for the long long post but it’s been quite a long drawn out confusing maddening process. Where do I stand with this? Should PayPal be able to take the money out of my account even though I can prove the reason for the payment? Should I have to pay return costs for a faulty damaged item? Where do I stand with the item no longer being in the condition it arrived in? Is it worth trying to fight it or do I just chalk it up to experience? Why are PayPal letting people blatantly get away with fraud? Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance

[sharpiemarker]

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@bigoatis wrote:
I have lost quite a bit of faith in PayPal over the pasta couple of weeks and their inability to stop people getting ripped off. In hindsight I wish I had gone with my gut instinct and returned the item when it arrived damaged. Let me start at the beginning and explain what has happened to me. I bought a grille for my car which arrived damaged. I contacted the seller who was apologetic and asked if I could fix it and they would compensate me for the damage. I wasn’t very happy but agreed to try see if I could still make use of the grille. The grille didn’t fit properly and some of the fixing tabs were shockingly flimsy. To say I was unhappy was an understatement as it had cost me £190 I expected so much better. I contacted the seller again and over the course of the next few days they agreed to rufund me £60 and for me to make alterations to the grille to make it usable. They sent me the £60 via PayPal and I went to work trying to get the grille on my car. I was still not happy with the finished fitting as it still doesn’t fit right but the fact I had accepted the partial refund I figuered I would just have to get used to it. They asked/pestered me to close my eBay case against them and leave them good feedback. Since I had agreed their terms with the refund I obliged closed my case and left feedback. I thought this would be the end but this is when the real problems started. I got a notice from PayPal that a dispute had been opened against me for none delivery of goods. Puzzled I clicked on the case and the seller was now posing as a buyer trying to claim the £60 back they had refunded me. I tried unsuccessfully to get a response from them and had no choice to escalate the case to PayPal. I included all the email conversations between me and the seller pointing out their fraudulent claim to be a buyer. A week or so went by and to my relief common sense prevailed and the money was returned to me. Again this should have been the end of it but a few days later I again had a paypal claim against me from the seller for the refund they had given me this time saying it was an unauthorised transaction. This time I couldn’t respond properly due to the options that I had for the case. I did my best and referenced the previous fraudulent case brought against me. I was annoyed but since I had already won the first case I thought this would be a formality. How wrong I was! imagine my surprise and anger when the case was closed in the sellers favour. After going round in circles in the resolution centre and then again using the automated phoneline I eventually got through to somebody at customer services. I explained the situation and they got my case details up and agreed with me that the seller was trying it on to scam me out of the money. However they said they were powerless to stop it happening and my only hope is to open a new case against them asking for the £60 again. This time I had to do it through PayPal’s resolution centre which would stop them taking it back once it was paid. He told me that I should have done this in the first place. I was unaware of this as on both eBay and PayPal’s own resolution guides the first point of call is to contact the seller directly to reach a solution. I did this reached a solution and now PayPal are letting the crooks take my money off me! As of writing this I just received an update from PayPal saying that the seller will issue me a full refund. All I have to do is send the item back at my own cost and return the item in the same condition I received it! It is going to cost me close to the £60 they have already stole from me to return the item. I am confused as to why I also have to pay the return costs when not only did it come damaged it wasn’t fit for purpose. I will also struggle to return the item in the same damaged condition that it came in because I had to repair it in the first place then make alterations so it would fit. I was careful (or so I thought) not to do anything to it until I had confirmation the would give me some money back and upon receipt of the refund. Sorry for the long long post but it’s been quite a long drawn out confusing maddening process. Where do I stand with this? Should PayPal be able to take the money out of my account even though I can prove the reason for the payment? Should I have to pay return costs for a faulty damaged item? Where do I stand with the item no longer been in the condition it arrived in? Is it worth trying to fight it or do I just chalk it up to experience? Why are PayPal letting people blatantly get away with fraud? Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks I advance

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What you do now is return the item and file for shipping costs reimbursement. Google "PayPal Return Shipping". There is a limited amount you can be reimbursed. In the US, the limit is $30 USD so it may be the equivalent in GBP. The thing I worry about is returning the item in it's "original condition". But if there is a record of the repair/alteration in the dispute, hopefully it will let you off the hook but keep it in mind. I don't think PayPal is letting people get away with fraud. It is what's in the minds of the other party. Your seller did not just fall off the turnip truck. They know how the protections PayPal provides work. And at the end of the day PayPal just picks a winner of each case based on the 1% tip of the scale. Good luck with the rest of your case.

[bigoatis]

Thanks for taking the time to reply it really is much appreciated. After having a lengthy phone call this morning with PayPal and getting passed round a few departments I’m hopefully that things are going to be sorted out. The advice that I got on Friday about them not being able to do anything wasn’t correct. I’ve again provided them with evidence that the other party agreed to and then sent me the £60 as a partial refund. He says I should hear back within the next couple of days and he thinks that common sense will see through. They are also going to investigate the other party to see if they have tried to do this type of thing before and take action accordingly. My faith in humanity as been restored slightly today.

[yinchar]

Keep us posted and let see how it goes.

Based on my experience most of the claim resolutions are fully automated. Its totally out of the hands of the customer support staffs that you spoke with.

Wishing you the best of luck buddy, it saddens me when you see a situation like this...

[bigoatis]

Just an update of sorts. Nothing new to report I’m still waiting on the limitations team to get back to me with a decision. I am hopefully now that my issue is been dealt with outside the automated system that it will be settled the right way. Maybe I’m biased as it is me who has ben wronged but I can’t see how they can not return the money to me. I have sent copies of the conversations with the seller where they agree to give me the refund, ask for my paypal information and then ask if I have received the money. 

Fingers crossed common sense will prevail. 

I will keep you update once I get a reply 

[bigoatis]

A further update and things haven’t gone as I had hoped or expected. After receiving no contact from PayPal I rang them back up again. This time the advisor was far less helpful. He said they could do nothing about the unauthorised transaction claim despite the fact the other party submitted no evidence to support their claim. The evidence that I have that their claim is bogus is the wrong type of evidence! He couldn’t give me a satisfactory answer as to how and why I had lost the claim. I am still scratching me head as to what has transpired. I won the first case because the evidence showed it was a fraudulent claim yet the second one went against me. ??? PayPal have said the only option I have is to send the item back at my own cost and hope the seller refunds me! I have contacted eBay and they have told me that it is the seller responsibility to pay for the shipping not mine but frustratingly they can no longer enforce this. I am now in the process of logging a formal complaint with PayPal as I am disgusted with the way I’ve been treated. It’s not about the money anymore it’s abiut them acknowledging and allowing people to get away with fraud. All the customer representatives I’ve spoken to have acknowledged the fraudulent behaviour of the seller yet are unwilling to do anything about it. If I don’t get any joy from the complaint I will escalate the matter further. I’ve got enough time on my hands to keep pestering and fighting until all avenues are exhausted