Help with two issues

[vixen03]

Currently have two issues with Paypal and they just seem to be chinning me off.

First problem. I brought an item back in march 20 that arrived broken spoke to seller they ignored me so I opened a case. After 2 or so months case was closed in sellers favour when I disputed this, I was told I had to return the broken item for a refund however PayPal hadn't informed me of where to send it. In the coming months I had about 9 different online chats about this issue all miraculously kept getting closed down by PayPal. Until eventually one agent told me where to post the item back, I got told where to post it and that I had to provide the tracking to the chat and they would reopen the case and id be refunded, so that's what I did. So I wait a few weeks tracking says that its been delivered but no refund. I open another chat and apparently the tracking is incorrect. so I re-gave them the tracking oh its spelt wrong our end sorry... chat closed. in December I got back into the UK and was able to phone them up I was told yes the tracking I gave them did confirm it was delivered and that it would be reopened, and that in a few weeks I would have a refund. Nope instead I get an email saying I need to provide proof of damage. So I go on PayPal case hadn't been reopened so had to make another chat to give them the proof, they confirmed they had uploaded it and said they sent me an email with confirmation they didn't. Today I get an email saying they have closed the case in the sellers favour because my proof of damage wasn't sufficient and I quote "We understand the item associated with this case has been altered while in your possession. Because of this, we are unable to determine whether the item is significantly different than originally described, and we are unable to grant your claim" utter **bleep**... so I'm down the item worth £151, the money for the item another £151 and now also £12 for the return shipping so a tasty £314 lost.

Second problem. I sold 2 items on a forum and about a week later got an email from the buyer in it they state its not what they ordered and want a refund, I agree if they return the items in same condition, instead they open a PayPal case. I find out during this case that the buyer has been banned from the site for scamming people in similar ways so I inform PayPal that I feared that he may return an item that isn't what I sent him and I get told that if that happens I'm covered. Then one day PayPal refunds the buyer putting me in the red on my PayPal balance and closes the case. Later that day box arrives and guess what one item in the box not 2 and it isn't even one of the items I sent him. I appealed PayPal's decision and get an email saying I need to provide a police report and they sent me a link to a US police report obviously didn't do that but I did file a UK police report and gave PayPal the details. I get phones calls every day from PayPal for the next 2 weeks asking me to deposit funds into my account to clear the red balance, each time I tell them I'm appealing a case and I wont be doing that. Then just before X-mas I sold another item and stupidly gave them my PayPal details. That cleared the red balance on the 23rd and on the 24th oh fancy case has been closed in buyers favour as I didn't provide the required information.

so once again I'm down £466 for the item, £466 for the money that PayPal have taken from my recent sale, so a tasty £932 lost.

so all in all £1246 lost now I'm of two minds the first is to take them to small claims second is that as I have PayPal credit that currently has roughly the same amount might just tell my bank not to give them any more money and never use the **bleep** again. 

hopefully I've not gone to mad

[vixen03]

Anyone seen this before

[kernowlass]

@vixen03 

Sorry too long can't wade through that great block of text, try an edit with just the facts and paragraphs.

[vixen03]

Ok so my problems are:

I've brought items that were damaged, PayPal said to send them back I did they now decline to refund me I have numerous chats (screenshots) telling me where to send them and I have proof that it was delivered via tracking no. so for this one i have no item and no money and the seller has both

second issue

Sold 2 items to a person on a forum turns out he's conned a few people. he told PayPal that I had sent something by a different manufacturer and that he wanted to return the one that was no right. I informed PayPal that I believed him to be a scammer and was told that when the parcel arrives I could dispute it if it wasn't what I sent. I did this as out of 2 items sent I received one very much different item. PayPal took the money from my account and refunded him put me in the red and then spammed me with messages saying you owe us. I refused because I was disputing it. They said to raise a police report I did and provided proof including proof from the forum with numerous other people he had done this to. PayPal said they would investigate this whilst still spamming me daily with pay us. I later sold something else which cleared my red balance not a few hours later the case is closed insufficient evidence.

so that's 2 items and the money gone and I'm left with something totally worthless.

so I'm down the item worth £151, the money for the item another £151 and now also £12 for the return shipping so a tasty £314 lost on the first transaction

and on the second I'm down £466 for the items, £466 for the money that PayPal have taken from my recent sale, so a tasty £932 lost.

so all in all £1246 lost now I'm of two minds the first is to take them to small claims second is that as I have PayPal credit that currently has roughly the same amount might just tell my bank not to give them any more money and never use the **bleep** again. 

is that any easier to read

[kernowlass]

@vixen03 

1. If tracking show delivery of the item back to the seller then you would have to appeal and get the case re-opened.

2. Which dispute did you open?

3. Have you claimed for return shipping as per link?

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns

4. Did you fund your paypal payment via a credit card, if so you could consider a chargeback?

4. Was it a UK sale in which case small claims court?

5. 
Try:
Contact options for Paypal are accessed by clicking help/contact bottom left of Paypal pages...

1. Paypal phones are slowly re-opening and increasing in numbers (you can use the guest option if you can't log in).
2. Live chat is also randomly available.
3. You can send them a message, during business hours you may also be able to message whilst logged out.
Or
4. Have you considered contacting Customer Service via Facebook or Twitter?
You can send them a personal message from their Facebook or Twitter pages.
It's: https://www.facebook.com/PayPalUK and @AskPayPal for Twitter.

[vixen03]

1. If tracking show delivery of the item back to the seller then you would have to appeal and get the case re-opened.

I've appealed it got asked to provide proof of damage after it was already returned provided pictures and they closed the appeal with "not enough evidence"

2. Which dispute did you open?

i opened a dispute for the damaged items i brought 

3. Have you claimed for return shipping as per link?

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns

4. Did you fund your paypal payment via a credit card, if so you could consider a chargeback?

i only use debit and i contacted my bank but because PayPal took a total of 8months to do all this they cant chargeback

4. Was it a UK sale in which case small claims court?

both are uk sales 

5. 
Try:
Contact options for Paypal are accessed by clicking help/contact bottom left of Paypal pages...

Ive had about 20 live chats all have been closed mid conversion one even told me to f off and i could close the chat......

1. Paypal phones are slowly re-opening and increasing in numbers (you can use the guest option if you can't log in).
2. Live chat is also randomly available.
3. You can send them a message, during business hours you may also be able to message whilst logged out.
Or
4. Have you considered contacting Customer Service via Facebook or Twitter?
You can send them a personal message from their Facebook or Twitter pages.
It's: https://www.facebook.com/PayPalUK and @AskPayPal for Twitter.

[vixen03]

I've just sent a message via facebook but I would doubt they will do much about it. Ive contacted my bank and ceased all payments to paypal that might kick them into gear when they stop getting my money

[vixen03]

@kernow 

so I've been speaking to PayPal on messenger got told that my issue would be passed to a specialist, now that specialist wants me to email <removed> (funny you cant put that here) and the relevant team will help seems like once again just like all the phone calls and live chats just getting passed around with the hope ill **bleep** off

Also been told that only new information will get them to open an appeal, considering they have had the tracking number for the returned items that were damaged for many months  that wasn't enough and they have had the police report on the other one and that also wasn't enough. 

I think ill just cancel all payments to paypal and chin them off like they do with everything else

[kernowlass]

@vixen03 

Fair enough but maybe consider option 4?

[vixen03]

@kernowlass

just to be clear Option 4 against PayPal. I just received this message so ultimately no help at all from them

"Please note, you can dispute any charge within 180 days from the purchase. We are unable to open the dispute after this time. The first transaction seems to be made 3/29/2020 and we are unable to dispute the charge. The other dispute has been closed, because the documentation provided was not sufficient enough to support this case.

so because they **bleep** up i cant appeal as its now to old....

If there is a negative balance on your PayPal for a long time, it will be moved to our collection agency. You have to clear the negative balance by adding money. This type of decision isn’t something we do lightly, and I can assure you that we fully review all factors of an account before making this type of decision. While I understand that you don’t agree with the outcome, this is something that would have been fully reviewed and we would be unable to change."