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I feel foolish.
Placed an order and immediately had second thoughts. The website said I could cancel within 24hrs. Sent email and was ignored, just like everyone else. Opened dispute and they "shipped" right after PayPal contacted them. I knew it was bogus. Almost 2 months later, tracking hasn't moved since 1 month in, PayPal sided with them.
My bank took the dispute. I would encourage anyone who's been burned to contact their bank. Filed and goods not as expected/have not received. Willing to jump through hoops to get my $89 back. Hope I'm wrong but feel like PayPal will just yank it from my account if the bank sides with me.
Gotta wonder why kind of protection PayPal offers if they can't catch on to these people. Doesn't seem to be a lack of evidence.
Case Resolved! 100% refund
I was worried, but ultimately Paypal came through for me when I followed the proper case resolution procedure.
1. Try to resolve the case with the seller.
They tried to offer me 20% and 'informed' me that I would have to ship back to an address in China and this would cost me approx 66% of my original order. I replied during the resolution attempt and said I would take 80% (20% for the lesson learned**), and if they didn't accept I would be after them for 100%
2. Escalate to Paypal before the resolution period has expired.
Make sure you get on your horse with the emails, check frequently for replies from the seller, and respond calmly politely intelligently. Be Cordial - no aggression..
3. Make sure you keep a record and timeline of your engagement.
From purchase to escalation.
4. Take screen shots of the sellers store front. (Optional - I didn't have to provide any info)
In my case, the seller took the store down shortly after my escalation - perhaps by chance, but I saved the page anyway
5. Look for discrepancies between what was promised and what was delivered.
Luckily in my case there was a major discrepancy - The product "Shipping Dimensions and Weight" were listed clearly on the page, and did not match shipping label - not even close. Shipping description was 500G, the product that was shipped to me was 6g. That was the biggest piece of evidence that I had.
** On point 1, lesson learned. The offer I saw was so good, that it was too good. I'd seen the product listed elsewhere for 5x the price, so I was going for the deal. I found humor in the result - I wanted to order a "Drawing Robot" and they sent me a pen - Making me the "drawing robot". I've also seen your posts about ordering a "Tennis Serving Machine" and they sent you a tennis ball, making you the "Tennis Serving Machine". Kudos to them for trying and at least being humorous about it.
Shame on Shopify!
So Paypal did protect me, but Shopify has not responded. I know this isn't a "Shopify" forum, but chances are the storefront that defrauded you is actually hosted on Shopify infrastructure.
How can you check?
Many times there is a "Powered by Shopify" logo at the bottom of the page. If not you can use free tools to lookup and identify who is hosting the storefront you were defrauded by
1. take the URL (that is the website address) and perform an 'ip lookup' you can do this on various websites on the internet - use your favorite search engine to read up on how to do this. You can also use the 'ping' command in windows, mac or linux to do this. The name should convert to an IP address. In my case:
Pinging changbug com [184.108.40.206] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 220.127.116.11: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=55
You can see the address is 18.104.22.168
IP addresses are like phone numbers and control the routing of 'packets' from your computer to the store front, and back. Shopify owns (or leases) large blocks of IP addresses and hosts the stores for many sellers on servers at these locations.
2. Take that IP address and go to a WHOIS BY IP ADDRESS site -this will be another internet search to find a site that will do this for free- avoid ad sites 🙂
This will reveal who 'owns' the IP address:
NetRange: [Removed. Phone #s not permitted]227.63.255 CIDR: [Removed. Phone #s not permitted] NetName: SHOPIFY-NET NetHandle: NET-23-227-32-0-1 Parent: NET23 (NET-23-0-0-0-0) NetType: Direct Assignment OriginAS: AS62679 Organization: Shopify, Inc. (SHOPI-1) RegDate: 2013-09-19 Updated: 2013-09-19 OrgName: Shopify, Inc. OrgId: SHOPI-1 Address: <removed> City: <removed> StateProv: <removed> PostalCode: <removed> Country: CA RegDate: 2013-07-09 Updated: 2014-10-31
In my case it's pretty clear- shopify
I escalated to Shopify, and there is a forum, similar to this one, hosted there. Shopify refuses to pull down the sites - I'm not sure why. Instead Shopify will direct you to contact the storefront 'owner' (who will not reply) and Shopify's policy with regards to store fronts and product misrepresentation. I diligently followed Shopify's escalation procedure and they have yet to act or respond, and while the look, feel and products listed at changbug dot com ( the storefront where I was scammed) may have changed, it continues to operate to this minute, ready for the next victim.
This has really turned me off of sites hosted by Shopify - I'd mentioned in previous posts that I am Canadian - unfortunately I'm not proud that Shopify is a Canadian company, and I would never recommend anyone purchasing any items from any Shopify hosted store front. You are at risk.
Turning a blind eye to fraud while profiting is a bottom feeding, bush league, B-Team move. really disappointing. Terrible.
Fortunately for me, Paypal has stood by their buyer protection policy and fully refunded my purchase.
You may have heard of Ali Express - and have the stigma that it's Chinese, and might be shady, but I'll frame a statement in these facts:
The irony is that it seems as though Chinese Fraudsters choose to use Shopify (North American - Canadian!) as their platform of choice, and not the Chinese hosted Ali Express because they can get away with scams for long periods of time on Shopify, but wouldn't last long on Ali Express.
Go figure that one out.
Yep, ther're good. They got $33 out of me for a 6 pack of toilet paper (showing it to be a "48 Double Roll" when ordered). Then they knew how to play PayPal and the credit card chargeback divisions and keep the money... ... ...
I have also been scammed by this company: Dongguan Shunfa Logistics Co., Ltd.
I emailed PayPal and questioned why they had not blocked this fraudulent company as it has received numerous complaints against them including here in the forum.
Paypal insists that I have to return a lousy tennis ball to China (which would cost $ 15 in shipping) when I bought and paid for a dog ball launcher for $ 24. Otherwise I can not get a refund.
Third question: Regarding with the scam sites.
We have around 22 million registered merchant accounts we can not go through every single one indivitually and determaind that they are scammers.
We rely on our users to report these accounts and when they get reported by enough people they get reviewed and dealt with.
If they still are on our site, that means that not enough people have reported them so our security system has reacted on them.
I wonder how many registrations are needed? - Let´s keep on and report the scammers!!!