Complaints to PayPal in their handling of disputes

[mcqueenster]

I need to make a formal complaint to PayPal regarding their method of dealing with disputes and claims. Anyone figured out to do this? Paypal appears to make this very difficult to do.

It appears from the resolution centre that I can only engage with PayPal if I have a dispute with another a buyer or seller, but not make a complaint directly to PayPal around the way their policies are applied.

My most recent dispute demonstrates a large hole in their customer buyer/seller process. Throughout this recent dispute I had minimal involvement and decisions made that I could not provide detail to. (the dispute process in the resolution centre is very restrictive on who and what information can be displayed)

Be wary of selling anything using the paypal payment system. Ebay provides the selling platform but it seems they do not need to get involved in any disputes. The dispute can go directly to Paypal , and it can be escalated from a dispute to a claim on the same day without any communication with the other party in the transaction. It is only at this time the other party is notified of the issue.

Some clever paypal users have figured out that they can receive an item, decide they don't want it any more, record it as "not as described" provide no more supporting information and say they have posted it back to the seller. All without any involvement or agreement with the seller.

All Paypal needs to reverse the payment transaction is to see a proof of posting. No checks are made with the seller that the item has actually arrived and is in the condition it was sent, or even if it was the same item that was sent. Many items are on ebay as no returns unless significantly not as described. Paypal appears to ignore this when managing the dispute process. The buyer should be responsible for confirming why the item is not as described and communicate this to the seller before requesting a return. Paypal doesn't check for this and provides a refund automatically, leaving the seller with a negative paypal balance and potentially no item, a damaged item, or a completely different item to that sent.

Has anyone else has similar PayPal experience?

[kbayrouty1982]

I am disgusted on how I have been treated as a Seller.

I didn't realize that doing everything through Ebay would still allow for PayPal to make decisions and Ebay can wipe their hands clean of it.

I sold a camera on 2/26 and the Buyer received it on 3/6. I put $500 insurance on the shipping of it and went through Ebay for everything (Selling and Payment.)

I was told just yesterday (3/27) that the Buyer wanted $55 for damages to the camera. He had the camera for 3 weeks! He didn't notice that the bottom of the camera was damaged within 3 weeks? I don't buy it. It did not leave my hands damaged. The camera was in working condition and minimal wear and tear when I shipped it out.

Anyways, I refused to give him $55. I contacted Ebay and PayPal to let them know. Ebay couldn't do anything bc he reported it to PayPal.  I was told by PayPal that it would take no longer than 18 days for a resolution. Little did I know they would have an answer at 10 am this morning.

They are not going to refund him the $55. No, that would be too easy. They are going to have him send me back the camera and reimburse him the $550 that he paid for the camera that I have to pay back. Like wtf? Now I am on the line for $550 and a broken camera that I didn't send broken and I can't prove was damaged through shipping.

3 weeks is a long time. He could have dropped it for all I know.

Ebay won't help me bc they didn't get a claim and PayPal is just like oh we believe you (the Buyer.)

Needless to say I will not be doing business with either company ever again.

[dalmore_pam]

I have a similar tale about how awful Paypal treats sellers.  I sold knitting machines through another online site, expecting a local viewing and cash, however a buyer offered to buy and they would organise the courier at their cost.  They paid through Paypal "goods and services" so I ended up with less than the amount I wanted and adding insult to this, paid for them to scam me.  Bearing in mind I had expected a viewing before someone bought my items so you'd expect that if they were broken, it would be noticed, this buyer contacted me on receipt of the machines and accused me of selling them damaged goods, that I had packed them broken and that they wanted a refund.  I know they were in perfect condition when I packed them and I didn't arrange the courier.  They raised a complaint against me, the first I've ever had and told a whole load of lies about me and throwing all sorts of accusations; quite horrible people to be honest.  Their main argument was that I had packed it broken because there were no broken pieces in the box and they admitted that the machines were very well packed.
Paypal took their side even after my photos showing the condition of the machines, etc.  The buyer did return the machines, BUT there was additional damage that they hadn't mentioned in their complaint.  I had a neighbour witness me opening the machines when they were delivered and he took photos too, but when I raised the issue of the additional damage with Paypal, they basically said yep, that's why we gave the buyer a refund!!!  Hello, are you listening to what I'm saying Paypal, this is different damage???   I've tried raising a Formal Complaint, but after I press the submit button, nothing happens - no acknowledgement of successful submission, no error, just straight back to the Message Centre.
How is it ok for buyers to complain about a broken item and get a full refund, but me, the seller, faced with additional damage (probably caused by bad packaging and transit) gets told tough!!!  Not to mention the lies these people told - I found the broken pieces in the box!!  So I've lost a sale, paid to be scammed and have two broken knitting machines and Paypal couldn't give a damn.
14 years plus of 100% perfect track record counts for nothing and there is no way anyone from Paypal bothered to read my statement or look at my photos!  I will never accept payment by Paypal when I sell now and I warn everyone and anyone about this.
If anyone has successfully submitted a Formal Complaint via Paypal's email form, I'd be really interested to hear how you manged to do it!!

[MicheP1]

I too raised 3 formal complaints about refunds being made to scammers. You are correct, PayPal don't acknowledge the complaint and you don't get any copy sent to your email nor any reply whatsoever. There is no such process in place at all. They are operating without any complaints procedures. When you raise anything innlive chat, it is not a person reading your notes. They are scripted replies or total incompetent oversea staff who write robotic answers. My financial queries, have been in financial resolution for over 2 months which is ludicrous. I had to write off £300 as I simply couldn't deal with the ongoing stress. It is a very clever system that brings you around in circles so you give up. If we all stop using PayPal for selling, or buying, then scammers won't have a platform to use. I use my debit card all the time now to avoid any profits going to them. They are simply a deceitful banking system!

[Meegzz1]

The Complaint via Email : I'm going to put it in words because this platform won't let me post the email address which says a lot " <Removed>"

[derek29]

I am mortified reading this topic and now know i have no chance with PayPal,

I sold an item and the bidder basically changed his mind, after he had won the auction he wanted to know what was inside the vintage computer he had purchased. He wanted to know if it still had certain components inside so i told him it was as I had purchased it in the 1990's (and still have the receipt to prove it) from what i know its as it left the factory but only 30 years older. he replied and he hoped all would be present and correct, he would have to open it and break the security seals to know that.

It was only i went to send the item out, i realized he had chosen to collect from Argos and where his name should be he just duplicated "Argos in Sainsburys" this began to worry me a little.

I asked him to provide his name (which he did not) but foolishly i sent the item out even though i knew he was going to open it up.

Two days after receiving the item he contacted me claiming he had accidentally purchased two of the same item and would like a refund offering to pay the postage cost as it was his mistake and not my fault so i refused, he had not even contacted me through the eBay resolution center but via the ask the seller a question so i knew he would be returning some thing he has opened up, could have removed parts from and it would be my word against his.

He then asked again for a refund threatening me with "i paid with a credit card and it is in your interest to do so"

When that didn't work he files a PayPal dispute "item not as described" under article 75 of the sale of goods act he demanded a refund, he claimed it was missing parts - a separate power supply and a mouse- which he had to purchase separately to test the item and explain away why i took him another week, it was to concoct some sort of reasonable excuse.

And  guess what? it conveniently did not work properly even though i had tested it before putting it up for auction and posting photos of the machine working then checking it after the sale and a third time before i wrapped it up and sent it by Parcelforce 24.

I know he already has these items to test as he is always buying Amiga games and parts for this type of vintage computer so i know he already has the "parts" required a cursory look at his buying habits prove this to be true.

I invited potential buyers they could collect in person and test before parting with any money.

I foolishly allowed PayPal to decide the outcome thinking i had a very good case as i had all the emails and messages from the buyer that should prove he was abusing the buyer protection and just waited to be asked my side of the story.

The next thing i knew the case was closed after ten days because "merchant failed to reply" i had not even received any emails telling me i needed to respond so he won the case by default.

I contacted PayPal who kindly reopened the case only to find 48 hours later it was closed again for exactly the same reason given and so this went on twice with exactly the same outcome but I had at least (should I lose) got an assurance that I would receive the item back before the refund is given and I could even hear frenetic key tapping on the line with the gentleman claiming that he has put this down in the dispute case and I should not worry – if the item is not returned, comes back damaged or not in the original condition it was sent I would be able to open a dispute in the PayPal resolution center.

I lost and I cannot be bothered to argue anymore because the computer shuts the case down because I did not reply in the time allocated I just want my goods back, the buyer is in the UK as am I so its not a case of the buyer being allowed to keep the item because of costs or distance - £15.00 by Parcelforce 48 and the goods in question are £250.00.

According to what I have read the buyer has ten days to provide tracking as proof it has been sent back and only when the goods are in my possession does PayPal refund i am led to believe and this has not happened.

I cannot use PayPal's resolution center as it appears blocked , I get a circle that rotates with a red line diagonally across a circle with something like “ unable to some thing or other” I cannot remember exactly what it says but it does not work.

The buyers laughing - his money back and the goods - last time i ever buy on eBay or use PayPal, will be asking to have my account closed in protest, anybody ever noticed its a multiple choice heavily biased in eBay's favour and you actually cannot give the exact reason for closing your account? .

To add insult to injury eBay paid themselves final valuation fees etc etc on top of that!

Next stop small claims court - he either gives me the money or the goods, he cannot keep both.

Wow i can't wait to be given another badge for replying or some such - a few bananas to keep the apes happy eh PayPal?

[MicheP1]

I have used Paypal for years and had no problems as such. Just 2 months ago, I sold some gaming vouchers through Ebay and even had emails from the buyers confirming receipt. They have subsequently taken out disputes against me so I provided all the proof of sales which took hours sorting out. You can't speak to anyone in Paypal now because Covid has caused this complete shut down in Customer services. A big company like this not being able to cope 4 months later still is incredulous. Paypal have told me on live chat (10 hours later!) that all payments have been taken back from my account plus charge back fees at £14 each! I am £200+ out of pocket and these buyers are laughing at me as they have clearly spent the vouchers and I have no recourse. I am flabbergasted that Paypal can simply 1. just take money out of my bank account and 2. will not assist me at all despite my notes and evidence. It is absolutely disgraceful. I will no longer use them and will take the trouble of using my debit card for my own future purchases. I would happily wring the CEO's neck if I had the opportunity. How dare they put people through this stress and anxiety. They are a bunch of complete useless over the seas staff. AVOID Paypal if you can. The scammers are very clever now and can raise disputes so easily knowing you will not be able to recover your funds. They tell you that it's all with the financial institute and it will take weeks on top off the long dispute period. The monies have already been taken and from what I am reading here, it is highly unlikely that I will be reinstated. It is all a bl**dy con and buyers know exactly how to scam the system. Ebay have not helped at all and so you are left in the hands of Paypal idiots who just simply take money back on the whim of 'disputes'. BEWARE! Thank goodness it was this amount and not anymore as I have had to write it off and pay the overdraft fees it caused me.

[temp201909092d]

Victim number 34.same bias to the seller.I sold an item buyer paid with PayPal.then a month later claimed that TV had a smashed screen and asked for a refund with eBay, eBay said no Since it was after 30 days so he opened a not as discribed dispute through PayPal and PayPal gave him the money back So now I have a negative ballance. Even though I sent them pictures showing the email with date that he reported it a month after Receiving the item. A picture of the tv working and a picture of damage that I took and that he sent to me both confirming the same damage.yet that was not enough for them to confirm the damage.they opened and closed the case 4 times and every time they would close the dispute they would send me a stupid irrelevant email saying "the buyer proved that he sent back the item and so we chose in favor of the buyer" when that was never a dispute about not recieving the tv but the dispute was about the damage and missing remote.PayPal service is the worst when it comes to the seller. when the buyer returned the TV back he kept the high end remote control to the TV and sent me a cheap magnavox remote that doesn't work with the sharp aquas TV. Yet PayPal doesn't care even though I sent them a picture of it.they always try to find an excuse to not help the seller by asking for some other irrelevant as information that you don't need and can't provide so they can still deny the case by sending an irrelevant email with an insulting irrelevant statement as to why they those in favor of the buyer. Just in case there would be a class action suit against PayPal add me that list.after the way they treated me I started to hope for them to go out of business,it would be nice if there was a competitor with a better service that could replace them.because if they don't care about their customers then why are they in business then?

[DBCooper305]

Same thing just now happened to me.  I provided very ample proof the buyer just 'changed his mind or was running a con'.  The buyer provided zero proof, not even photos, claiming his item was not as stated.  All he had to do was submit the claim.  Now I have several hundred dollar negative balance on PP.

   I will be canceling my PP account...just hoping the con buyer does mail back my item.  

[Paraonelli]

Paypal have messed me around during a claim that not only the deadline has expired but i have lost any chance of getting my money back. Im a buyer and brought an item which turned out to be a fraudulent fake item. I opened a case and paypal ruled i send it back at my expense for a full refund. I questioned why i should have to pay postage as it was not my fault the item had to be returned and paypal answered that they would look into the case and get back to me...i heard nothing... I asked a second time and even stressed that the deadline is close but still i heard nothing back. Ive been emailing them since as its almost like they couldnt be bothered to look into it so they just let the deadline come and close the case however they keep telling me that i didnt send the item back in time so thats why the case closed, and totally ignoring the fact i was waiting on a response from them in regards to posting the item back. Now its seems i have been ripped of by a fraudulent seller and now **bleep** over by paypal. I have asked multiple times for the information i need to make a full complaint however this gets ignored on each reply. How is this fair or right! If this is the way it is maybe we should all start selling fake items as the only person profiting is the seller. Is there anyone else thats been in this situation?

[AutomationSpare]

We have been taken advantage of by an unscrupulous buyer who is probably aware of the way in which paypal operates.
They raised a complaint through paypal for the goods being "not as described" and through that they managed to get a full refund (€2800) including shipping.
We provided evidence including photos and T&Cs of sale, the goods were also explicitly excluded from paypal's protection.

As soon as the goods were returned to us, paypal immediately sent them the full refund.

Each and every single response was ignored.

I am now seeking legal action. Will keep you posted.