Instant Transfer problem?

[Jolkster]

I know there are a lot of boards on problems with instant transfer, but I couldn't seem to find the answer I was looking for, so:

I play on a certain gaming site, where you can spend real money at get bonus items, etc.

PayPal usually lets me use instant transfer to make these transactions, but sometimes it won't.
I'm wondering why at certain times I can use it, but at other times it decides it's unsafe, even though I've purchased from them before, quite a few times.

It gets rather annoying when it won't let me purchase something I would like now, but have to use an echeck or drive down to pick up a mastercard, which usually comes to more than the card itself.  (Eg. $50 Mastercard comes to $55.68)
Whereas if I was able to use my instant transfer I wouldn't have to pay the extra.

Is there a way to fix this?
Such as contacting PayPal and asking them to allow this certain site?
Or another way?

Thank you in advance!

[jmp2204]

Is there any other services similar out there? I was wondering why mine doesn

t work anymore too.Can't get customer service to work on the puter either.....

[PayPal_Frank]

Hi everyone,

I know many of you have asked that we thoroughly investigate this issue and provide more detail about what is happening or what would cause the Instant Transfer option to be blocked.  Thanks for your patience while we looked into your reports.  The results of that investigation are described below.  This is a long post but I wanted to make sure I'm providing all the details surrounding this issue.  Our engineers have reviewed the situation and the examples we have collected; here’s what we we found.  First, let’s discuss an Instant Transfer versus an eCheque. 

The similarities have been highlighted in bold.

eCheques:

- Take 6-8 business days to process from Canadian bank accounts.   We will not know if the bank transfer is successful for 6-8 business days.

- The recipient or seller does not immediately receive the funds.  They must wait the full processing time.

- If we are notified the Canadian bank transfer has failed, we will cancel the eCheque.  In that case, no funds are sent to the seller.

Instant Transfers from a bank account:

- Take 6-8 business days to process from Canadian bank accounts.  We will not know if the bank transfer is successful for 6-8 business days.

- Require an account to have an active bank card or credit card on file to act as a back up funding source for the bank transfer.  This back-up card will be used if the bank transfer fails. PayPal still does not have any guarantee that an attempt to charge the card will result in a successful charge to the card in that situation.

- PayPal will immediately pay the recipient or seller before knowing if the funds will clear to PayPal.  This is part of the service we offer as a courtesy to help make online transactions faster so consumers can receive their purchases as fast as possible.  This is why they are labeled as "Instant Transfers" even though they are still technically eCheques coming to PayPal.

So when will Instant Transfer be unavailable for a purchase?

- When there is no active bank card or credit card on file to act as a back up funding source.

- When there is only one active card on file and that card is about to expire.  If the card is going to expire within 30-45 days, it's possible that the card would be cancelled when the new replacement card is received and activated by the card holder.  Most card issuers will have the new card delivered 30-45 days before the expiration date. By the time PayPal would possibly need to charge the back-up funding source, there is a high probability that the card will not be working at that time.  This could result in a negative balance on your account, as the buyer, and potentially prevent use of your account until the issue is resolved. 

-  If you have had a card on file whose expiration date had been automatically updated by our system, we are aware of an issue (albeit rare) where Instant Transfer may become unavailable..  This can be fixed by removing the card and re-adding it to the PayPal account.  With that said, the majority of posters in this thread are not being affected by that issue, and there are only a small number of members across all of PayPal that are affected by this issue.  We’re hoping to have this issue fixed very soon.

- Lastly, our security system may choose to block the Instant Transfer option.  This system uses dynamic statistical models and looks at a number of different things when making these decisions. If it decides to block the Instant Transfer option, usually there will still be an option to send an eCheque or use a bank/credit card for the purchase.  While this situation is rare, there is the possibility of this happening more often on accounts with a history of failed bank transfers, stop payments or bank reversals, each of which represent potential loss to sellers and to PayPal itself.  This would be similar to a merchant who has received a bad cheque from someone and declining to accept one from them again at a later date.

I hope this post was helpful to clarify the situation.  We can't discuss account specific information on the boards. So if you’re not sure which of the above situations applies to your account, please contact our Customer Support and a representative will be happy to assist you.

 - Frank 😄

[Deweyoxberg]

Thanks for the in-dept analysis Frank. It's appreciated.

I have only one question at this time: Don't you find it bizarre that the majority of this issue is reported by *Canadians* who have / claim to meet all of the requirements you have provided us with?

I can see the security model being a big deal, no disagreement but let me ask you this. If I buy the same item from the same merchant, every month, without any failures, from the same bank account, why can I:

- A : Buy the item without issue

- B : Proceed to buy another item from the same seller without issue

- C : Suddenly get told by Paypal that the merchant does not accept eChecks and have my Instant Transfer greyed out?

I assumed for the longest time this was the security system kicking in, seeing rapid-transactions in a short time frame and locking down my account to prevent fraud; seems logical. So I decided to spread them out over a few days; the same problem happened.

So in my mind:

1) The recipient does in fact accept Instant Transfer, contrary to what PayPal tells me

2) My account does in fact meet all of the requirements you have posted, and as others have commented, for them as well

3) It's mighty convenient timing that all these issues started up when the Canadian dollar hit parity with the US dollar (started to notice problems in June 2011)

[PayPal_Frank]

Hi Deweyoxberg,

While it may seem like Canadian customers are seeing this issue more often than other countries, I can assure you that this security system is used for all PayPal accounts worldwide and has been in place for many years.  An example of reports we have received on our US. community forum is located here .

Another possible reason for this perception is that Canadians do not typically receive bank cards with a Visa or MasterCard logo.  For example, in the US. most banks issue cards with those logos which makes them compatible with PayPal.  In those situations, PayPal needs only to recommend that a customer use the bank card associated with that bank account as a way to make an instant payment if the Instant Transfer option for the bank is not available.

While it's true that some merchants block eCheque payments, we do not give merchants the option to block Instant Transfers.  If you were told that a merchant blocks Instant Transfers, I apologise for that misinformation.  A merchant could be blocking an entire payment for other reasons but blocking the use of Instant Transfer for a transaction is not an option available to them.

Your concerns about why this is happening to you are definitely valid.  If your account meets all the requirements we posted, then we would infer that the absence of the Instant Transfer option is probably caused by the security system.  It's understandable that anyone would want a specific explanation for why the security system has chosen to block the Instant Transfer option for a payment. 

To provide a detailed explanation would require divulging specific details about how our security system works which could compromise its effectiveness to protect our customers.  Making that information available to customers we value and trust would unfortunately also make that information public to the fraudsters and scammers out there who would use it for nefarious purposes.

If PayPal has to convert from CAD to USD or vice versa for a payment, the type of payment method used would not affect that currency exchange.  Whether an eCheque or an Instant Transfer, PayPal would still do the currency conversion either way.  In that situation, there would be no incentive for PayPal to block Instant Transfer based on the currency exchange rate.

While this post isn't a detailed explanation for why it's happening on your account specifically, I hope it was helpful to clarify the situation in general.

- Frank

[Deweyoxberg]

Thanks for the response Frank; it's an awesome posting.

My biggest concern and I am sure MANY would agree is that while we can discuss the situations left and right, generally speaking, our experience with "customer service" is anything but service.

I can recall one particularly frustrating conversation discussing exactly all of these points; finally in my case it was ruled (after a thorough investigation) that the security system was to blame. It drove me nuts, because there was no explanation. On one transaction I might be denied, or I could have more than one go through. There was absolutely no consistency.

The only recommendation PayPal had for me was to transfer funds from my bank to PayPal first, then use the available balance as the funding source. I explained then, as I will now, that this option defeats the purpose of "Instant Transfer".

In essence from what I understand, "Instant Transfer" is exactly like an eCheque except for one key difference: PayPal assumes the risk "now" believing the funds will clear, and/or that the back-up source will be able to take care of the difference. If this the case, then having to transfer funds in advance from my bank account defeats the purpose of Instant Transfer.

I've tried many times to hash out my particular case with PayPal to no avail. Basically, like many Canadian consumers, I am at the mercy of the "security" system. It's an unreasonable expectation. Either I can use Instant Transfer, or I can't (due to whatever restriction). Not kind of maybe, depending on the latest horoscope.

I'm sure we can agree business is business. While there will always be unknowns, I would hope and expect that we can work together to iron out some of the nastier ones. I would like to continue using PayPal's services, but in all direct honesty: It's unreliable because of this issue.

What can be done about it?

- Does it matter if the back up funding source is a pre-paid credit card (whether secured through a financial institution / retail store)?

[Deweyoxberg]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the additional information earlier today. You have done more in the past week than customer service has been able to do in three years.

I like your recommendation and despite the downsides, might be worth it.

For the community at large: Have a look at your transaction histories and if there's a good chunk of failures on cards/reversals etc, you might want to consider starting over. Be aware that there's downsides (like losing the history) and you'll have to go through the whole setup process again; I know it was painful last time.

It doesn't surprise me that there's a large portion of Canadians with this challenge. Given how our big banks offer out credit/debit cards, we all know they can freeze/block/deny/delete/modify and otherwise do whatever they please whenever they please; we don't have the luxury of stiff competition forcing reliable credit service(s).

Pretty much what happened in my case, now that I've had the stellar service I've come to expect from PayPal. Makes sense now, no pun intended.

Merci, Frank.

[jrie]

So, deweyoxberg, if I understand what Frank told you correctly, he suggests starting a new paypal account to reinstate instant transfers?

I don't have any reversals or or failures, but would this possibly work for me? I hate the idea of losng my history though.

[ja6100]

I was having the same problem.  The expiry date on my backup credit card was expiring the end of this month.  Once I activated my new card and updated it on my account, I was able to do an instant transfer immediately.  Thanks, Frank!!

[CookieCanucki]

ATT: Paypal Frank

I have a few questions for you...

1.  You state that eChecks & Instant Transfers done on Canadian banks take approximately 6-8 business days. 

     Can you clarify how long it takes for someone from the US to do the same exact transfers?

2.   You stated in  your posts here & I quote...
       "Canadians do not typically receive bank cards with a Visa or MasterCard logo.
        In the US, most banks issue cards with those logos which makes them compatible with PayPal." 

We do indeed get the Debit/Credit Cards with a Visa logo, that are:  exactly the same as those issued In the US & work exactly the same way

According to my bank, this particular Debit/Credit Card with the Visa logo on it...."is accepted at stores and in the U.S. and around the world where Visa cards are accepted & also is accepted by U.S. and international online, telephone and mail order retailers that accept Visa cards."

Acquiring one of these cards, will make us compatible with Paypal. 

[CookieCanucki]

Frank still waiting for your reply.

CookieCanucki wrote:

ATT: Paypal Frank

I have a few questions for you...

1.  You state that eChecks & Instant Transfers done on Canadian banks take approximately 6-8 business days. 

     Can you clarify how long it takes for someone from the US to do the same exact transfers?

2.   You stated in  your posts here & I quote...
       "Canadians do not typically receive bank cards with a Visa or MasterCard logo.
        In the US, most banks issue cards with those logos which makes them compatible with PayPal." 

We do indeed get the Debit/Credit Cards with a Visa logo, that are:  exactly the same as those issued In the US & work exactly the same way

According to my bank, this particular Debit/Credit Card with the Visa logo on it...."is accepted at stores and in the U.S. and around the world where Visa cards are accepted & also is accepted by U.S. and international online, telephone and mail order retailers that accept Visa cards."

Acquiring one of these cards, will make us compatible with Paypal. 

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