buyer to pay postage for returning faulty goods

[colcarry]

Why should I have to pay return postage[must have tracking number] for item which I received faulty and unusable?  Already paid postage to have the b/ thing delivered,

[kernowlass]

So if someone disagrees with you you resort to name calling??

Are you still in the playground??

Most users on here understand adult debate...shame you don't.

Oh and i am a buyer but the difference is I don't expect paypal to nanny me through the buying and selling process, i take responsibility for my own decisions and risk assess my own buying and selling transactions.

Bye Bye. 

[davejay100]

Yes, although Paypal offers good protection on most things, this return postage policy on faulty goods leaves something to be desired for sure. Any company who sells a faulty item should of course re-imburse the postage both ways, and few folk would disagree with that, it's downright common sense. I recently bought a heavy item from a Euro country which was clearly faulty on arrival. Paypal are in the process of claiming re-imbursment for me, but I have to accept that I have to return the machine  at my own cost, and an item weighing around ten kilos is going to cost dearly.   Someone above mentioned the small claims option open to us, but that is in no way cheap unless the item cost runs into at least a few hundred quid.  No, the buyer is always  on a loser here.  The consumer laws are at fault, not Paypal

[ICarr]

Davejay100, 

As was pointed out in an earlier post, it is NOT the consumer laws that are at fault here. If the goods are faulty, the seller is obliged to pay the cost of return postage (this applies if the buyer is in the UK, even if the seller is in another country). The problem is that PayPal, for its own reasons, has decided that it will not charge the return costs to the seller. They say they cannot, but that is untrue: it is that they choose not to.

The law UK was quoted earlier as: r.14(6) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 (SI 2334) which specifically states that, where goods are returned as a right due to a breach of a term implied by statute (specifically s. 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979), the rights, given by r. 14(5), of a seller to require the buyer to bear the cost of a return is dis-applied.

What this concerns is the Distance Selling Regulations as compared to the Sale of Goods Act. In summary:

• If the buyer changes his mind, the buyer is entitled to a refund but the buyer must pay return postage costs (but some companies generously do refund return postage costs)
• If the goods are faulty, not 'as described' or 'not of merchantable quality', the buyer is entitled to a refund, and the seller must pay return postage costs

[Unhappy15]

I purchased an item from Asia and it doesn't work. The cost was £110 PayPal have said I must return it via a tracking method, this will cost me £59.20, PayPal have not even acknowledged my request for the company to pay the cost. In future I will use a credit card because at least they would be helpful.

[ICarr]

This is exactly what we are complaining about. PayPal's supposed help often doesn't, because they don't enforce the seller having to meet the return postage cost.

[calumma]

Just had the same issue crop up and baffled by Paypal's poor handling of the situation. I had an item that cost £235 arrive broken. The poor internal packing was to blame in my opinion since there was no damage to the external box. I initiated a reclaim and was told I had to return the item at my own expense. When I purchased the item I had to pay for the postage. I will get this back as part of the claim. However, now I am returning the item I again have to pay for the postage. Apparently neither Paypal nor the seller will reimburse me the £30 I have to pay to post the item back. 

Not only that but the seller is intiating an insurance claim with the courier to recoup their money (they seem to think the courier is to blame for mishandlig the package). If their claim is successful they will have recovered all of thier costs. The only party out of pocket is me the buyer who has nothing to show except a very poor impression of Paypal's resolution centre.. 

Paypal have been very poor in the whole dispute. I have initiated two online requests for support with Paypal over the situation and had no response. After the first request and lack of response I even received a follow-up email asking me to provide feedback on the support I didn't receive! 

I have ensured that I have paid for the return postage with the same credit card. I will be filing a complaint over the matter with the credit card company (who insist that items are returned before they will get involved). I am also considering making a formal complaint with trading standards. 

[yvefinn]

Try phoning them this was the only way I got it resolved, & here is a hint when it asks for claim number just say advisor save a lot of time & frustration 

[1994cossy]

The subject of return postage costs is both complicated and somewhat different in the UK to other parts of the world. I can only comment on the UK.

Both Ebay and Paypal are just too inept or lazy to ensure that all sellers accept certain rules that will protect a buyer from being out of pocket on the return of faulty goods. When anyone signs up with Ebay they have to accept their terms and conditions and that is where it is quite simple to cover a buyer properly; a condition requiring a seller (both business and private) to accept no matter what that they must refund return postage for faulty goods is all that is required. That forms part of the contract between seller and Ebay. A similar condition when signing up with Paypal is also all that is needed; again the terms and conditions for signing up and opening an account with Paypal, are the contract by which a seller is obliged by law to abide.The condition would merely need to make it clear that where goods are faulty the seller gives irrevocable authority to Paypal to refund the buyer all that the buyer paid the seller in the first place plus the amount the buyer incurred for the return.

As it stands at present, the only protection a buyer has is under UK common law and enforcement of that through the courts. I currently have a dispute with a private seller on the cost of a return for a faulty Laptop (clearly and obviously faulty prior to the sale but with no mention of it in the Ebay listing). If he does not refund the return postage then I could take him to the small claims court (rather a waste of court time in most cases for a small amount - in my case it could be at least £20 to ensure full insurance cover) and I doubt whether any judge would find in his favour and leave me out of pocket given I bought the item in good faith and in reliance on the "honesty" of the seller. The seller refuses to pay for the return costs so no doubt Ebay will find in his favour if I do not return it and pay the postage so, I have messaged the seller that his faulty goods are available for collection by him in person or by his appointed and paid for courier and that if he fails to so collect and refund all my money within 14 days I will issue county court proceedings for recovery plus interest and costs. Giving the seller the opportunity to get his faulty goods back will I am sure be seen by any judge as fair and reasonable.

So Paypal and all your agents, representatives, employees, etc please do not mislead the public at large into believing that "we cannot take back from the sellers bank more money than they received" is actually the case - you just cannot be botherted to get it right in the first place.

[1994cossy]

Hello again kernowlass

Sorry, I forgot to ask something in my previous reply to your post.

You said "Paypal is not allowed by law to dip into another persons account and force them to pay more money back to the buyer" and that they can only force a seller to refund "money that was processed by Paypal to the seller". What law are you referring to - if it is covered by UK statute please specify that statute. Is Paypal just a business or a legally constituted and licensed banking organisation and if the latter, why is it then they cannot operate like every other UK licensed bank when it comes to dipping into a customers account to grab more money than that customer owes on another account.

[kernowlass]

@1994cossy

Paypal is not a bank and does not come under banking laws.

They can only ever recover funds processed through them ie the original payment made by the buyer and not return postage costs.

But that does not mean you can't recover those costs via the small claims court BUT that normally applies to registered businesses and the goods have to be proven as faulty and not just that the buyer has changed their minds.

The facts are in paypals user agreement which was approved by the FSA in the UK.