Identity verification

MirceaKitsune
Contributor
Contributor

Greetings everyone. I'm having concerns regarding one of the procedures Paypal seems to have introduced for users. I would appreciate some input from other users, and if possible a member of the staff looking into this as well.

 

After receiving a payment on my Paypal account, Paypal informed me that my account would be limited until I provided proof of my identity and residence. Currently I can still send and receive money, the only limitation is not being able to close my account which I don't plan on doing anyway... however I understand it may get worse over time if the situation isn't resolved. I believe this is due to some law in the US regarding money laundering, which requires all banks to gather informations on their customers... apparently that ended up affecting even how services like Paypal have to relate to their users, whether we care about the world's games of 'cops and robbers' or not. Although I consider this a disturbing invasion of privacy and did not appreciate being requested to send scanned documents over an internet connection, I did so and uploaded what Paypal asked me to on their website form. The site said that the data was registered successfully and the staff will review it and lift the limitation "in a few working days".

 

So far I haven't received any word from them in 10 days, which feels like a bit more than a few working days. I know everything should be fine, given I provided Paypal with exactly what they asked me for; I'm only a bit worried since I know that in bureaucratic situations, some services and people find reasons to use this as a means of making users lives harder, starting up games of the form "this isn't conclusive, this looks too blurry, we don't like you so please also send this". I'm neither good at dealing with forms nor wish to have to send even more (ideally private) documents to people I don't personally know, so I don't want to find myself dragged into this sort of thing too much.

 

Is it normal for identity reviews to take this long? And should I expect Paypal to be picky and worry about them finding reasons to reject what I send to them? I'm sorry once again if my worries are unfounded... like I said I don't usually deal with this kind of procedure and it's a bit stressful until I know that it's been solved. Thank you for your time.

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MirceaKitsune
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The issue was FINALLY resolved today, after nearly 3 months of struggling with the verification process. It's definitely a relief to see all warnings and limitation lists erased, and to have just been able to withdraw the money frozen in my account to pay my overdue rent.

 

The help came from an unlikely source: I received some money through a card I have with Payoneer (a bank and payment processor similar to PayPal). Payoneer offers the option to download a card statement in PDF format, which thank goodness happens to be formated in a way that meets all the criteria PayPal wants (company name and logo, my full name and address, date of issue, recent transactions). I decided to upload it to PayPal, and this time the issue was solved within minutes.

 

In an attempt to give a fair verdict on the situation, I'll end on the following note: Wherher or not others are likely to experience such problems depends on where they live and what kinds of documents they have available. PayPal has some recklessly strict criteria on what counts as valid "proof of address"; If one letter or date is missing or out of place, you can send them every bill or bank statement in the world and they'll still reject it... if you have no way of obtaining a document that counts, though luck to you as far as PayPal is concerned. Some people have solved this verification process within a matter of days, because they luckily had documents resembling what the PP saff expects... others like me instead were forced to obtain and scan documents for months, because our banks or institutions happen to not offer what PP wants.

 

I believe PayPal absolutely needs to make their criteria more lax, and be much less paranoid with their verification process! Sure; We get that there are bad guys in the world, the cops need to fight the traffickers and money laundering, PayPal needs to respect the law, bla bla bla... however we have no fault in this, nor are us users bureaucratic experts whom can be asked to deal with this sort of thing in a month's notice. Further more the interface was very counter-intuitive, and I constantly had to contact staff and ask them what to do because the page wasn't making it clear, said staff also being counter-intuitive at times... surely the administration can at least ask their web developers to make everything clearer and more detailed.

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MirceaKitsune
Contributor
Contributor

It's been over a month now. I'm pretty disappointed with the way PayPal has been handling the issue, even if of course it could always be worse. First of all, the website and emails are full of inconsistencies and misunderstandings of terms, including the following:

 

  • PayPal's understanding of what "a few working days" means is radically different from the rest of us. If to most people that term means somewhere between 3 to 5 days, for PayPal this term represents a month. The page that appears when you submit identity information still says, and I quote the exact sentence, "we’ll get back to you within a few business days"... I however have been waiting for an entire month.
  • I continue receiving emails saying "we need more information about you", whereas the ticket has the status "waiting for your response". In reality, I am the one waiting for PayPal's response and for the staff to look at what I sent them. I've already submitted everything PP asked me to, and even the form tells me there's nothing new for me to do right now. Why keep telling me to do something after I've already done my part?
  • My latest payout caused a new counter to appear saying "you have 29 days to resolve before your account becomes restricted". However my account already is restricted! The only restriction so far is that I can't close it, but that still means restricted. Does this message mean the system may add even more restrictions, or are they referring to the same ones being reconfirmed?

That being said, the story is of course not free of documents being rejected, just as I predicted; My electronic phone bill was deemed useless after 3 weeks of waiting... all because my phone company chooses not to put their logo on it, whereas PayPal insists that their proof of location contains silly drawings on them, even when all of the written info is clear as daylight. I sent them a scan of my last bank statement after that, which contains my bank's logo as well as my full name and address. Right now I'm once more in the process of waiting for a "few" business "days"... which I wouldn't mind if I was sure this is the end of it, and they won't find god knows what wrong with this document as well.

 

The situation is pretty stressful since, to be frank, me and my mother's lives literally depends on having this account up and running; If they block my ability to receive and withdraw payments, we have no way to pay our bills or buy food, we are homeless and pretty much dead. I hope PayPal understands the responsibility they have toward those who depend on them... including people who don't have an endless supply of documents to satisfy picky verifications which in a normal society shouldn't even exist. I don't believe that in the year 2017 people should have to deal with stress due to such easily avoidable issues.

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MirceaKitsune
Contributor
Contributor

Several more weeks have passed. During this time, PayPal has been silently rejecting every document I was submitting... neither the account interface nor any email notifications informing me that it was happening and PP wanted me to submit yet more documents. Even at this very moment, I don't know which of the latest documents are either rejected or yet to be reviewed. I have submitted nearly 10 files in total for address verification... each one mockingly rejected after the other for reasons I will never know.

 

This goes on top the fact that I need to submit each document in two places simultaneously: Once in the interface available from https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_complaint-view and once under https://www.paypal.com/confirmcard which is apparently a different database. I don't know which of the two the staff checks most, so I had to note down both links and upload everything twice to be certain.

 

I spoke with the PayPal staff two times on the phone. While customer support was kind and tried to be helpful, there wasn't much they could do in the face of the strict criteria set by the PayPal administrators. I asked them what I did wrong and why documents that clearly meet their requirements are being rejected... all they could point out is that they all just so happen not to work, because this bit is printed over there and that bit isn't visible the way PayPal expects it and god only knows what else. Eventually they said they'd note one another to see if there's anything they could do, which was the typical tactic to get rid of me without absolutely anything changing.

 

The first staff member I called told me to go to my bank and ask them to print out a written statement, guaranteeing me that this will work and they will lift the restriction once they receive it. So I got dressed immediately, did the one hour walk through cold and rainy weather between my home and the bank I use with PayPal, and got a statement. But what do you know: The bank I use just so happens not to print the customer's address on their statements, nor have their logo on them... so needless to say this was also just a slap in the face. I even had a discussion with the bank clerk while they were printing the file, and he told me that many clients of the bank use their cards with PayPal yet they've never heard of them ever being asked this sort of info, as well as mentioning that the statement they're giving me (stamped and signed) should be everything an institution like PayPal would legally require. Even in my country and for my bank, my situation appears to be unheard of.

 

The only option I have now is to run around the city, seeing which institutions can issue a government statement clarifying that I live at my address. However I'm not sure I want to lose whole days doing even that at this point; PayPal will surely find yet another reason to reject those too as they have with everything else, even if they explicitly say they will accept it. I'll likely only dump another dozen documents that took me hours to obtain and get scanned, only for PayPal to laugh at me with each one and say they don't care.

 

I'm additionally getting ready to publish my experience everywhere I can, in order to let everyone know of what happened to me and warn them; PayPal has zero respect for its users, and does not give a damn even about those of us who depend on them for money we need to survive! How many people have they left homeless or without food and electricity, because folks made the mistake of trusting the so called #1 online payment processor with basic reliability? There is no excuse for what is happening: PayPal is punishing those who have done absolutely nothing wrong, who have never broken either the law nor their terms of service, who have shown only good will and fully played by their rules... something no institution with a speck of professionalism would ever do to their clients! I hope they get in return what they have offered to others, knowing that society and the rules of competition eventually punish those who treat others unfairly as PayPal has done in my and other cases.

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MirceaKitsune
Contributor
Contributor

Here's yet another update from today, furthering the mockery and incompetence I've been seeing from PayPal. I'm sorry if this sounds confrontational, but right now I'm sincerely at the end of the rope with PayPal, and I'm sure anyone who's read the previous posts can see why.

 

I (finally) received a new email update this morning. This time it didn't say that my documents were rejected (the usual), but that my address settings in my account are incorrect, because they don't match what is written in the provided documentation "word by word". The old address was correct and complete as far as I can tell, but should I even wonder at this stage? So I just sighed and told myself "okay, I'll just do what they want again and edit it". But obviously not even this was possible without encountering further issues:

 

First of all, I cannot edit my address because it's linked to a bank card, and apparently addresses linked to cards may not be edited for some inexplicable reason. I had to make a second address which I set as my primary address. I have no idea whether this still counts as what they want, but it's all I was allowed to do. Why just why would you send me an email telling me to edit my existing address, if I am not allowed to edit my address?

 

Second, I don't know which document they want my address to match! Like I said I've submitted a dozen files to them over the course of two months, because no matter what proof of address I gave them there was always a reason to reject it. I am not told which document was accepted or rejected, and in fact I don't even now know if one was finally accepted to begin with. Each one formats the address differently, I don't know how the heck they want me to prefix my block and entrance and floor and apartment number! Is it "apartment ##", "apt. ##", "APT.##"... PayPal has a fixation with those sorts of ridiculous details, so they're the ones demanding me to know what this must look like.

 

Please tell me if I'm the one being unreasonable here, because I believe I've managed to be more patient than most folks would have been at this point... after spending hours running across the city and scanning documents just for PayPal, and being met only with mockery in return. How is this possible in year 2017?! Can a user not expect any basic reliability and consistency from what is supposedly one of the largest payment services on the planet!? If the situation isn't resolved, I'm preparing to write down the entire story (with blurred versions of my documents as proof) and post it everywhere on the internet to let people know about what's happening... I'm sorry if this sounds mean but I don't want others to be unknowingly put through the sort of experience I've been. I'm awaiting clear instructions from PP soon, and for the whole ordeal to be resolved already.

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MirceaKitsune
Contributor
Contributor

The situation has reached the point of being outright unreal. I'm going to post about this simply because I don't even any more:

 

PayPal finally decided to accept one of the bank statements I sent them as proof of address for the address verification procedure. Out of all the documents I offered, this statement (that was accepted) is the only one that does NOT show my address at all, because that's how the bank generates their statements. PayPal now has one final demand from me: To edit my address settings and match my address to this document... the document that does NOT have my address. To summarize this in a very clear way:

 

  • Over the course of two months and a half, I have submitted a total of nearly 10 documents for address verification. All of them show my address clear as daylight, except for just one.
  • A few days ago, a document was finally accepted as proof of address. It is precisely the one that does not show my address at all.
  • I'm lastly asked to edit my address settings and match the address in this document "word by word". The address that does not exist. PayPal has explicitly told me to do the impossible, and write down something that does not exist.

Are you even serious? Is this even real life right now? Can someone please explain to me just what in the world is going on here? Who takes those decisions, who establishes this criteria, who checks those documents, can I even suspect they aren't doing this deliberately to troll users? Jesus Christ...

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MirceaKitsune
Contributor
Contributor

The issue was FINALLY resolved today, after nearly 3 months of struggling with the verification process. It's definitely a relief to see all warnings and limitation lists erased, and to have just been able to withdraw the money frozen in my account to pay my overdue rent.

 

The help came from an unlikely source: I received some money through a card I have with Payoneer (a bank and payment processor similar to PayPal). Payoneer offers the option to download a card statement in PDF format, which thank goodness happens to be formated in a way that meets all the criteria PayPal wants (company name and logo, my full name and address, date of issue, recent transactions). I decided to upload it to PayPal, and this time the issue was solved within minutes.

 

In an attempt to give a fair verdict on the situation, I'll end on the following note: Wherher or not others are likely to experience such problems depends on where they live and what kinds of documents they have available. PayPal has some recklessly strict criteria on what counts as valid "proof of address"; If one letter or date is missing or out of place, you can send them every bill or bank statement in the world and they'll still reject it... if you have no way of obtaining a document that counts, though luck to you as far as PayPal is concerned. Some people have solved this verification process within a matter of days, because they luckily had documents resembling what the PP saff expects... others like me instead were forced to obtain and scan documents for months, because our banks or institutions happen to not offer what PP wants.

 

I believe PayPal absolutely needs to make their criteria more lax, and be much less paranoid with their verification process! Sure; We get that there are bad guys in the world, the cops need to fight the traffickers and money laundering, PayPal needs to respect the law, bla bla bla... however we have no fault in this, nor are us users bureaucratic experts whom can be asked to deal with this sort of thing in a month's notice. Further more the interface was very counter-intuitive, and I constantly had to contact staff and ask them what to do because the page wasn't making it clear, said staff also being counter-intuitive at times... surely the administration can at least ask their web developers to make everything clearer and more detailed.

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