Unregistered shipping; Damaged box

[Reina2]

Sorry if the questions don't fit exactly into this section. I'm very confused and worried and any assistance would be greatly appreciated. My buyer chose an unregistered and uninsured sea mail shipping method out of all the alternatives I provided. The item has reached my buyer although it is damaged. The buyer has sent me images of the item to show that it arrived. Can I still be valid for Seller's protection since there is no tracking number? Or can I possibly get the number from somewhere? I did not receive any number when posting the item to the US, would USPS have a number? If I am not eligible for seller protection, what are the consequences? As far as I know there might be a $20 chargeback if I win the claim. However would Paypal not assist me in this matter if they determine the claim in my favor? Would I still have to refund the buyer through the credit card company? And what will happen if I lose the claim? Sone background: the main item (a fragile item) is not damaged at all. However the box which the item comes in is damaged. The buyer insists that s/he wants to display it in the box and has opened a claim about this. However the industry and the manufacturer does not consider the box to have any monetary value and stated on their website that the box is to protect the item and any damage to the box but not the item itself will not be refunded or replaced. Thank you.

[kernowlass]

@Reina2

You should really read up on seller protection before you start to sell.

Also sending an item ''trackable'' is for your protection not the buyers. The buyer knows that if they don't get an item etc then the onus is on you to provide the tracking number or refund so you should list postage costs to cover you not the buyer.

But to give you more info we really need to know if the buyer filed a dispute for ''item received but not as described'' OR a chargeback which is done directly by the buyer via the card they used to fund the paypal payment.

[Reina2]

@kernowlass The buyer is currently claiming under SNAD. I'm inquiring about chargebacks just in case the buyer decides to bypass Paypal and do a chargeback instead. Would the chargeback bypass Paypal's claim? Meaning if the claim 30days isn't over and the decision has not been made, can the buyer still get back the money via chargeback? And if the buyer does a chargeback AFTER Paypal's decision is made and I win the claim, would they still be able to get their money back? Would me winning the claim serve any purpose in that case?

[sharpiemarker]

"Can I still be valid for Seller's protection since there is no tracking number?"

Depends on what sort of claim/dispute the buyer filed.

Because the package arrived damaged, the tracking number is likely to be irrelevant in this case. The buyer will claim SNAD and Seller protection does not cover SNAD disputes. SNAD meaning Significantly Not As Described. Even credit card chargebacks filed with SNAD as the reason are not protected.

You are responsible for delivering the item to buyer as described. You can protect the shipment by buying insurance but you allowed the buyer to choose the shipping service. I NEVER let my buyers choose the shipping method because I know what works best for what I ship and what I'm willing to risk or not. I decide because I have more to lose really.

PayPal only covers you from Item Not Received and Unauthorized Use disputes IF you meet the protection requirements.

"If I am not eligible for seller protection, what are the consequences?"

For PayPal SNAD dispute, accept or offer return for refund. You can suggest the buyer use "PayPal returns on us" Program to get reimbursed up to $30 on return shipping. Buyer sent you pictures of the damages so maybe they are not lying. Do the damages look suspicious? Does the shipping carton have matching damage?

"Would I still have to refund the buyer through the credit card company? And what will happen if I lose the claim?"

If this is a credit card chargeback the buyer filed, then the credit card issuer decides on the case, not PayPal. And depending on the dispute reason, likely SNAD, the card issuer may find in favor of the buyer then the money on hold will be refunded to the buyer by PayPal. You might not get the item back either. And will be charged the additional $20 chargeback fee.

Lastly, it really doesn't matter if the box is has no value. It has value to the buyer and the buyer said why. Some collectors like to house the collectible in a mint packaging. And this damage was not originally disclosed in the listing.

If damaged packages happen frequently, then rethink your approach to shipping method policy and insure shipments over an amount you cannot afford to lose and ensure that you pack securely to withstand long and short distance shipping. If this is a rare occurrence, refund and move on, instead of stressing out trying to fight something you have a low probability of winning, unless the buyer was really trying to scam, as SNADs are not covered.

[Reina2]

@sharpiemarker Thank you for the clarification. The shipping carton is crushed which matches the damage on the item's box itself. However, the suspicious thing about this is that they buyer said s/he checked with USPS and confirmed the parcel arrived in the country in that state. I'm skeptical as to whether USPS would keep a record of this for an uninsured method. As far as my country's shipping is concerned, they do not. The buyer also previously insisted the item itself has damage. But I shot that idea down by comparing images I showed her before shipping the item out to what s/he has received. It felt a lot like the buyer was trying to find faults to strengthen his/her case. After I showed the comparison, the buyer immediately changed tune to "seeing wrongly and thinking it had damage". On the forum which I am selling on, the buyer has been facing financial difficulties and has been shirking out of paying for goods s/he reserved and will be blacklisted soon. Will these be points of consideration for Paypal? Also is the box itself considered part of the item though? From what I understand, the industry only considers the item itself as the Item. The box is not shown in prototype pictures too.

[kernowlass]

@Reina2

We can't say what paypal may or may not do as you have not yet confirmed whether this is a chargeback OR a paypal dispute for item received but not as described..

[Reina2]

@kernowlass Sorry for being unclear but the current situation is a paypal claim under SNAD. I'm asking about chargebacks in case the buyer decides to use that method in the future.

[Whac-A-Mole]

For SNAD,the buyer will win and asked to return the item with tracking before he can get his money back,whether you have tracking or not does not matter.

now returning the item from his country may cost more than he is willing to pay,so you may want to suggest giving him a partial refund for the box .

if he loses,he could turn to his credit card issuer,what country is he in?

if he wins ,he could keep the item and get his money back.

foreign country cc issuer would deal with chargeback differently than US.

[Whac-A-Mole]

if he wins the Paypal dispute and asked to return the item,he could file chargeback with his cc issuer if he does not want to return the item at his expense.

In that case,the PAYPAL case would be closed.

[Whac-A-Mole]

I just reread OP said his buyer is in USA,so where is OP?

if your buyer files chargeback,US cc issuer will favor him,he can keep the box and the item and his money,you will be charged $20 chargeback fee.

better negotiate with him and offer a partial refund for the box.