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PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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kingtan
Contributor
Posted on

I've been using PayPal for several years now. I've always believed in their "Pay by goods and services" due to their buyer's protection claims and feel really safe doing so. This all went south upon making my first claim.

 

I have sent 2 emails and made several calls in regards to this. I've provided so many evidence that supporting my claim and I trusted the advertising of PayPals buyers protection but clearly I was wrong. Below are the emails I sent in regards to this claim. Please refer to the attached pictures along with the description below.

 

 

Email 1 - Sent on 23/05/17

 

instagram_ad1 and instagram_ad2 - shows his listing on instagram that doesnt state that its a customised hoodie.

instagram_conversation1 and instagram_conversation2 - doesnt show its a customised hoodie and he even states that its only been taken out of the wrapping.

 pp_cancel1 and paypal_cancel2 - shows hes stating that its perfect condition with no mention of customised hoodie and no mention of any tear.

pp_paid - shows that its 10/10 quality which means its perfect! out of wrapping with no tear and again no mention of customised hoodie.

 

I use paypal because i believed paypal will protect me against online scammers such as this guy. The evidence should be clear as is that hes a scammer.

 Email 2 - Sent on 25/05/17

 

In addition to the below information and pictures. Ive attached more evidence of this issue.

 

conversation1 - he stated that its a size M hoodie whereas its clearly size XL on received_hoodie2 

conversation2 - he stated that there is no stain, no holes and nothing wrong with the hoodie as its just been taken out of wrapping

 

received_hoodie1 - circled in red is the tear and cut up of the hoodie.

received_hoodie2 - size XL when he told me its size M
received_hoodie3 - close up shot of the cut up hoodie. its also missing the string
received_hoodie4 - worn out graphic as its peeling
 
Ive been more than accommodating with this issue and been doing way more work than i shouldconsidering im the one whos been sold a faulty product not as described! 

Ive spent a total of more than 2 hours on the phone withPayPal explaining why Ive been conned. The seller claim that hes selling a custom piece of Vlone hoodie which PayPal believe and thus PayPals buyers protection does not cover custom piece. What I fail to understand is how PayPal believe the seller's claim without any evidence? I, the buyer, provided all the evidence there is that doesn't state anywhere during our conversation and on his listing that its a custom piece! Ive appealed this case 3 times providing evidence that there are no mention of custom piece any where! After failing the 3rd appeal I called back PayPal and spoke to Rose the manager of dispute, number 78580. She advised me that I cant appeal anymore and keep insisting on PayPal buyer protection does not cover the quality of an item. But when I asked if a ripped hoodie and a wrong size hoodie is covered is covered she mention that my initial appeal was because of the quality of the item. Yes this is true that quality of the item is 1 of the many problem with this hoodie! I was yet to cover all the other problem thats wrong with the hoodie but Rose insisted that the first claim is the most important claim and told me that I was making more excuses to get the buyers protection. This is simply ridiculous as the evidence clearly show our conversation and transaction! How can all these be made up with so much evidence going against what the seller describes the item as? Ive been usingPayPal for years and years and made many transactions using PayPal and I trusted that with PayPals buyers protection, I feel safe and protected as a buyer but clearly this is not the case! 

 

 

I will take make my case whenever i can and make sure that people are aware of the "protection" PayPal give the buyers. This is just the beginning.

 

Thanks,

King

12 REPLIES 12

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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Whac-A-Mole
Frequent Advisor

there is n o buyer protection for customs order.

file chargeback with your cc issuer if you used a credit card.

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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DPCreations
Frequent Advisor

So what was the issue?

You purchased an item (or 2) and what you received was not what you expected, is that a correct summary?

That's really all that matters.

PayPal has very good buyer protection for item not received.

That's about all the protection you have.

You have a little support for item "significantly not as described".

EXCEPT, as @Whac-A-Mole points out, there is no buyer protection for custom orders.

PayPal policies make it very clear that buyer must pay return shipping with tracking if buyer wins a not as described case.

PayPal does not oversee the seller's packinging or even the product.  PayPal does not oversee buyer's unpacking and inspect.  So, PayPal has no way of absolutely verifying product condition or description at any stage of the process.  PayPal then makes a decision based on perception of truthfulness of buyer and seller.

There are serious risks to only purchases and you need to make sure you absolutely trust the seller before you make a sale.  Don't depend on PayPal to protect you against bad buyer judgement.

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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kingtan
Contributor

Issue 1 - Seller says its size M but its size XL upon receiving the item.

Issue 2 - Seller says the item is in 10/10 condition and that he has only taken it out of the wrapping

Issue 3 - Item is damaged with ripped on the neck of the hoodie

Issue 4 - In nowhere during our conversation or on the listing the seller says anything about it being a custom order but PayPal believed his claim.

 

Its obvious that the seller is making false claims and giving me false description of the hoodie during the sale. Ive been as careful as I before making any form of purchase but what stuns me is the amount of evidence stacked against him and he won the case because he claimed its a custom item which PayPal believe and with that he took my money and PayPal turn a blind eye on this.

 

Read the evidence I have provided and tell me if its really my fault.

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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Whac-A-Mole
Frequent Advisor

Paypal robot does not read emails or watch videos.

appeal and you would get a human being to review your case.

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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DPCreations
Frequent Advisor

So your dispute was "not as described".

What are the details of the item as listed?  Was the word "custom" anywhere in the listing?  Was there any indication in the listing that the seller modified the original shirt by adding a logo, print, or anything else?

If you dispute you need to collect your evidence that the seller was re-selling a stock item to which the seller had made no changes or alterations.

Details matter, not unsupported claims of falsehoods.

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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kingtan
Contributor
hey guys. ive appealed this case like 3 times.

the word "custom" was no where to be found on the listing as well as the invoice! the seller made no indication that there was any rip or tear or custom modification done to the hoodie!

ive collected and provided all the evidence i can on this case that the items is not as described and that the seller lied his way out by saying its a custom item. If you guys read my first post you will know that ive provided all the details...

i do have 1 question. If i put up an item for sale with no proper description and the only description i have is via conversation... I told the buyer im selling a size M shirt and upon receiving the product the buyer found out that the product is actually a size XL. he filed a dispute. who would win the case?

once again...
Issue 1 - Seller says its size M but its size XL upon receiving the item.
Issue 2 - Seller says the item is in 10/10 condition and that he has only taken it out of the wrapping
Issue 3 - Item is damaged with ripped on the neck of the hoodie
Issue 4 - In nowhere during our conversation or on the listing the seller says anything about it being a custom order but PayPal believed his claim.

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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DPCreations
Frequent Advisor

If you sell an item privately, your best protection for description will be to have all details and pictures included in the invoice you send.  The invoice is an official record for PayPal.

After the sale, the "buyer said" and "seller said" arguments are all up for interpretation and PayPal mades a somewhat arbitrary decision about which party is more honest.

In the current case, PayPal determined "custom", so none of the other not as described are relevant to the discussion as they don't count for custom.

 

You need to present the facts that were on the seller's listing--all the details AND pictures.  The only was to show the seller misrepresented the custom part is show exactly what was part of the description before you made the purchase.

 

The instagram images are of little help as there isn't really support text descriptions one way or the other. 

That's why it's important to make sure all details are integrated with the original description.

 

If you want to appeal you need to stick to the reason you lost.  That's the custom criterion; none of the not as described matters at this time.  You need to argue why PayPal erred in the custom part.  Build your case with what you have.  If you get a reversal on that, then you can decide on the rest, but keep it simple an on point for now.

 

If you prevail on the custom/not custom then you would need to re-evaluate the SIGNIFICANTL not as described and prove that an differences were SIGNIFICANT.  But, since the seller didn't give much other than a picture for the original list, it will be difficult to prove.

 

 

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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kingtan
Contributor
thats exactly what i did.. ive appealed and showed these evidence... it got appealed but PayPal believed in the seller instead on me... even though the invoice shows otherwise and no mention of any custom modification...

i find that base on my experience its really easy for online sellers to lie their way through selling faulty products...

PayPal buyers protection is really unreliable

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DPCreations
Frequent Advisor

From what I read earlier I got the impression you were also appealing based on NSAD; if so, that only confused the matter.  You would need to come up with supporting evidence ONLY about the customization.  Assume that the PayPal person knows nothing about the shirt: I don't.  What does a picture of an off the rack shirt look like?  How does that compare with the one displayed?  You need a technical lawyer-like approach.  What other items does the seller show on IG?  Build a case about the buyer only selling off-the-rack items, no custom.  Become an expert about the shirt.  The PayPal person likely knows very little, so you need to be patient and informative to lead the PayPal person to a conclusion with a well planned approach.

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