Dummy package mail fraud

[jupiter1]

Hello Friends,

We have been victimized by what appears to be a Dummy Package Scam involving 3 cell phones purchased on Ebay and paid for via PayPal. Neither Ebay nor PayPal gave more than a cursory review of our filings and rejected out of hand our claims including Appeals. Clearly their Protection Plans are at best flimsy and at worst a Hoax.

Sadly, the phones were purchased from 3 different, first time Sellers who shipped them from the same Post Office via USPS on separate days spread over 2 weeks. We have detailed USPS Tracking Reports that clearly demonstrate false addresses for receipt. PayPal's response is that they have Strong documentation from the Sellers that Delivery occurred, and our only recourse is to contact the Seller.

Good Luck with that. All emails to the Sellers either by Hotmail or Gmail were promptly bounced back as Undeliverable. The point is that Delivery may have occurred but not to our address - a subtle but critical detail that continues to be overlooked by both Ebay and PayPal.

Sound Familiar? Sure looks to us like Mail Fraud.

The next steps that we are considering are to 1) File Report with USPIS 2) File Report with local Police 3) Contact FBI Mail Fraud Division.

Our questions are if anyone has had a similar, recent experience and was there a successful outcome? i.e. did you get your money back from either Ebay or PayPal? What additional steps should we consider?

Looks like a long slog, but after all we are out nearly $1000.

Additional info:

We know that we made a huge mistake buying from these new sellers with no selling history. We were not paying enough attention. After buying and selling successfully on Ebay for over 5 years and only ever having extremely minor issues, we were lulled into a false sense of security. We thought Ebay and Paypal would have our back. I have to say that, previously, all of the sellers we dealt with were wonderful people. Compounding our problem, it was a stressful time for us. So we are really shocked by this. 

1. Our address was absolutely correct when we placed the orders. We checked several times.

2. When the packages did not arrive on time, we checked the shipping and delivery notification emails. The initial USPS tracking report only showed the zipcode and not the street address. 2 of the 3 packages had the correct zip code, the 3rd did not. At this point we were thinking there had been a slight mix-up in transit, not Fraud.

3. We contacted USPS to provide us with the exact addresses to which the phones had been delivered. USPS did provide us with a more detailed Tracking Report. None of the packages were directed to the correct street address. We did not recognize any of the addresses to which our merchandize had been supposedly delivered. 

4. As soon as we realized we might have a problem, we tried to contact all 3 sellers at their addresses on file at Ebay. We tried both Gmail and Hotmail several times on different computers, but all enquiries came back as "Undeliverable". At this point we knew we had a real problem on our hands.

5. Around this time, Ebay informed us the 30 days had run out on their Purchase Protection Plan and we needed to pursue the matter through Paypal.  So we opened a Dispute with Paypal. We opened a Dispute, a Claim and an Appeal. All of which were denied with a statement that we needed to resolve the issue with the seller. Paypal claims to have STRONG proof of delivery of the items, but we have no idea of what that proof consists of because they promptly closed the Appeals without discussing the matter with us. To this day, we have not been able to contact the sellers.

6. Our Paypal account is connected to a bank, so we asked the bank for help and were refused. The bank said they would be bound by Paypal's decision. 

7. USPS tells us they are attempting to provide a more formal notice to Paypal.

Does anyone know if we have any recourse now that Paypal has denied? We are in the process of obtaining more detailed information from the USPS. We are also filing MAIL FRAUD complaints with USPIS, the Local Police and the FBI. Is there any to reopen with Paypal?

[jupiter1]

Hello Friends,

We have been victimized by what appears to be a Dummy Package Scam involving 3 cell phones purchased on Ebay and paid for via PayPal. Neither Ebay nor PayPal gave more than a cursory review of our filings and rejected out of hand our claims including Appeals. Clearly their Protection Plans are at best flimsy and at worst a Hoax.

Sadly, the phones were purchased from 3 different, first time Sellers who shipped them from the same Post Office via USPS on separate days spread over 2 weeks. We have detailed USPS Tracking Reports that clearly demonstrate false addresses for receipt. PayPal's response is that they have Strong documentation from the Sellers that Delivery occurred, and our only recourse is to contact the Seller.

Good Luck with that. All emails to the Sellers either by Hotmail or Gmail were promptly bounced back as Undeliverable. The point is that Delivery may have occurred but not to our address - a subtle but critical detail that continues to be overlooked by both Ebay and PayPal.

Sound Familiar? Sure looks to us like Mail Fraud.

The next steps that we are considering are to 1) File Report with USPIS 2) File Report with local Police 3) Contact FBI Mail Fraud Division.

Our questions are if anyone has had a similar, recent experience and was there a successful outcome? i.e. did you get your money back from either Ebay or PayPal? What additional steps should we consider?

Looks like a long slog, but after all we are out nearly $1000.

Additional info:

We know that we made a huge mistake buying from these new sellers with no selling history. We were not paying enough attention. After buying and selling successfully on Ebay for over 5 years and only ever having extremely minor issues, we were lulled into a false sense of security. We thought Ebay and Paypal would have our back. I have to say that, previously, all of the sellers we dealt with were wonderful people. Compounding our problem, it was a stressful time for us. So we are really shocked by this. 

1. Our address was absolutely correct when we placed the orders. We checked several times.

2. When the packages did not arrive on time, we checked the shipping and delivery notification emails. The initial USPS tracking report only showed the zipcode and not the street address. 2 of the 3 packages had the correct zip code, the 3rd did not. At this point we were thinking there had been a slight mix-up in transit, not Fraud.

3. We contacted USPS to provide us with the exact addresses to which the phones had been delivered. USPS did provide us with a more detailed Tracking Report. None of the packages were directed to the correct street address. We did not recognize any of the addresses to which our merchandize had been supposedly delivered. 

4. As soon as we realized we might have a problem, we tried to contact all 3 sellers at their addresses on file at Ebay. We tried both Gmail and Hotmail several times on different computers, but all enquiries came back as "Undeliverable". At this point we knew we had a real problem on our hands.

5. Around this time, Ebay informed us the 30 days had run out on their Purchase Protection Plan and we needed to pursue the matter through Paypal.  So we opened a Dispute with Paypal. We opened a Dispute, a Claim and an Appeal. All of which were denied with a statement that we needed to resolve the issue with the seller. Paypal claims to have STRONG proof of delivery of the items, but we have no idea of what that proof consists of because they promptly closed the Appeals without discussing the matter with us. To this day, we have not been able to contact the sellers.

6. Our Paypal account is connected to a bank, so we asked the bank for help and were refused. The bank said they would be bound by Paypal's decision. 

7. USPS tells us they are attempting to provide a more formal notice to Paypal.

Does anyone know if we have any recourse now that Paypal has denied? We are in the process of obtaining more detailed information from the USPS. We are also filing MAIL FRAUD complaints with USPIS, the Local Police and the FBI. Is there any to reopen with Paypal?

[#3]

We know that we made a huge mistake buying from these new sellers with no selling history. We were not paying enough attention. After buying and selling successfully on Ebay for over 5 years and only ever having extremely minor issues, we were lulled into a false sense of security. We thought Ebay and Paypal would have our back. I have to say that, previously, all of the sellers we dealt with were wonderful people. Compounding our problem, it was a stressful time for us. So we are really shocked by this. 

1. Our address was absolutely correct when we placed the orders. We checked several times.

2. When the packages did not arrive on time, we checked the shipping and delivery notification emails. The initial USPS tracking report only showed the zipcode and not the street address. 2 of the 3 packages had the correct zip code, the 3rd did not. At this point we were thinking there had been a slight mix-up in transit, not Fraud.

3. We contacted USPS to provide us with the exact addresses to which the phones had been delivered. USPS did provide us with a more detailed Tracking Report. None of the packages were directed to the correct street address. We did not recognize any of the addresses to which our merchandize had been supposedly delivered. 

4. As soon as we realized we might have a problem, we tried to contact all 3 sellers at their addresses on file at Ebay. We tried both Gmail and Hotmail several times on different computers, but all enquiries came back as "Undeliverable". At this point we knew we had a real problem on our hands.

5. Around this time, Ebay informed us the 30 days had run out on their Purchase Protection Plan and we needed to pursue the matter through Paypal.  So we opened a Dispute with Paypal. We opened a Dispute, a Claim and an Appeal. All of which were denied with a statement that we needed to resolve the issue with the seller. Paypal claims to have STRONG proof of delivery of the items, but we have no idea of what that proof consists of because they promptly closed the Appeals without discussing the matter with us. To this day, we have not been able to contact the sellers.

6. Our Paypal account is connected to a bank, so we asked the bank for help and were refused. The bank said they would be bound by Paypal's decision. 

7. USPS tells us they are attempting to provide a more formal notice to Paypal.

Does anyone know if we have any recourse now that Paypal has denied? We are in the process of obtaining more detailed information from the USPS. We are also filing MAIL FRAUD complaints with USPIS, the Local Police and the FBI. Is there any to reopen with Paypal?

[jupiter1]

UPDATE: Paypal has reopened our case. They finally agreed that there are some serious "irregularities" about the case. They are going to do some more investigation and get back to us. Wish us luck!!

[sharpiemarker]

Good luck!

[jupiter1]

UPDATE: Even better news:

Our bank has opened an investigation, not sure what exactly that means. We pay them a $5 fee per month to protect us from fraud.

We got an official notice from Paypal that the case of one of the phones that was delivered to BOTH THE WROND ADDRESS AND WRONG ZIPCODE (which should have been an automatic refund in the first place) has been decided in OUR favor. So we will be getting about $300 back out of the $1000. So this was the low hanging fruit.

The other 2 cases, where the merchandise was supposedly delivered to the wrong street address, but within our zipcode, are still under review.

We were so exhausted yesterday after having an almost 2 hour conversation with Paypal. Our issues got kicked up 2 levels in the chain of Management during this conversation. Believe me, they tried really hard to get us to drop our case.  

I want to thank everyone for your support. 

[jupiter1]

We are happy to report that Paypal has returned all of our money. We are so happy about this. Obviously, we will be extremely more careful in the future.

I want to thank everyone for their support.

[ryannguyen88]

HI there!
I am a new victim through paypal transition purchase. I have bought an item through paypal invoice and the seller gave me an tracking number and the item never be in my house. Before I made this purchase, I had called paypal customer service to ask If i am protected by paypal protection and they said I am safe if I do the purchase through paypay invoice., guess what? I paid $858 for an item and never get it even the tracking number said was delivered.

Since you had experienced this problem, Do you have an recommendation or advice me what step should I do for getting my money back. I did dispute and contact seller and did not get respond yet.
Thank you so much
Ryan

[DPCreations]

What are the details of the PayPal transcation?

Did you file a dispute for item not received.  Did you state that you did not sign for the package?  Signature is generally required over $750.

Did you escalate to a claim yet?

[ryannguyen88]

Thank you for your comment.
I just escalate the case today since I could not be more patient with this seller. They did not respond as all. I also contacted with USPS and asked where the tracking number went to and they tell me the seller did sent the item with that tracking number to the street that near to my house but not to my house. I have read a in this thread and got kind of same circumstance. I hope Paypal can suck my money back from this fraud. Some people are so bad bad.

[Whac-A-Mole]

---

@ryannguyen88 wrote:

HI there!
I am a new victim through paypal transition purchase. I have bought an item through paypal invoice and the seller gave me an tracking number and the item never be in my house. Before I made this purchase, I had called paypal customer service to ask If i am protected by paypal protection and they said I am safe if I do the purchase through paypay invoice., guess what? I paid $858 for an item and never get it even the tracking number said was delivered.

Since you had experienced this problem, Do you have an recommendation or advice me what step should I do for getting my money back. I did dispute and contact seller and did not get respond yet.
Thank you so much
Ryan

---

so,what does tracking show ?

for payment $750 or more,tracking is not enough,it must also be signed for.

how long ago is it?call USPS and give them the tracking number and ask for the address ,not just zipcode.

1-800 USPS customer service has more information.

if you have filed item not received,Paypal robot will take the tracking and bounce it against USPS site and found it was delivered and you will lose.

Then you have t o appeal,if USPS hasgiven you the address,tell Paypal and remind them if it is signed for,it aint you at that address.

OR cut the Paypal BS and file chargeback with your credit crd,make sure you includethad dress USPS give you.

this has been goinga round for sometime now,sell a phone ,ship an empty enevlope to an address in your zipcode like a commercial outlet which is open and has someone ready to sign packages.

never buy high ticket items from sellers with zero feedback or craigslist or fly by night website.

[jupiter1]

Hi Ryan, So sorry this happened to you also. This is certainly a well known scam. Would you believe I had to open another case with Ebay not long ago for a $13.00 order for psyllium? But this time I was right on top of it. After waiting for the item to be delivered for about 2 weeks, I checked my USPS tracking number. Although I got an email saying it was SHIPPED, it was actually not shipped - USPS dis not even have it. So I contacted the seller and opened a case. The seller never responded and after about 2 weeks to allow the seller time ro respond, I got my money back promptly from Ebay. KUDOS to Ebay - they were right on top of it. 

1. Just because you get a tracking number and "SHIPPED" email, you cannot assume the item has actually been shipped. So I check the USPS tracking within 2 weeks to give me time to open a case with Ebay within the 30 day time limit, so I don't need to go to Paypal. This really makes things simpler.

2. Really stay on top of things. You need to babysit the process more than ever. 

3. USPS can be really slow and here is where all of our time was eaten up - waiting for USPS to respond to our enquiry.

4. Once we had proof from USPS, we just had to keep bothering Paypal.

5. There are more crooks out there than I ever remember, so you really need to stay right on top of the process.

6. When checking out sellers, if Ebay says their rating is below about 95%, READ the reviews yourself!! I found one seller with a 94% approval rating, but when I read the reviews, their actual rating was only about 50%.

Good luck to you!!

[ryannguyen88]

Thank you.
yes I did contact USPS and got the information where the mail box went to. It went to the street near my house. Sound like similar to people get scam from the same fraud. why some people are so bad.