Dummy package mail fraud

jupiter1
Contributor
Contributor
Hello Friends,
 
We have been victimized by what appears to be a Dummy Package Scam involving 3 cell phones purchased on Ebay and paid for via PayPal. Neither Ebay nor PayPal gave more than a cursory review of our filings and rejected out of hand our claims including Appeals. Clearly their Protection Plans are at best flimsy and at worst a Hoax.
 
Sadly, the phones were purchased from 3 different, first time Sellers who shipped them from the same Post Office via USPS on separate days spread over 2 weeks. We have detailed USPS Tracking Reports that clearly demonstrate false addresses for receipt. PayPal's response is that they have Strong documentation from the Sellers that Delivery occurred, and our only recourse is to contact the Seller.
 
Good Luck with that. All emails to the Sellers either by Hotmail or Gmail were promptly bounced back as Undeliverable. The point is that Delivery may have occurred but not to our address - a subtle but critical detail that continues to be overlooked by both Ebay and PayPal.
 
Sound Familiar? Sure looks to us like Mail Fraud.
 
The next steps that we are considering are to 1) File Report with USPIS 2) File Report with local Police 3) Contact FBI Mail Fraud Division.
 
Our questions are if anyone has had a similar, recent experience and was there a successful outcome? i.e. did you get your money back from either Ebay or PayPal? What additional steps should we consider?
 
Looks like a long slog, but after all we are out nearly $1000.
 
Additional info:
 

We know that we made a huge mistake buying from these new sellers with no selling history. We were not paying enough attention. After buying and selling successfully on Ebay for over 5 years and only ever having extremely minor issues, we were lulled into a false sense of security. We thought Ebay and Paypal would have our back. I have to say that, previously, all of the sellers we dealt with were wonderful people. Compounding our problem, it was a stressful time for us. So we are really shocked by this. 

 

1. Our address was absolutely correct when we placed the orders. We checked several times.

 

2. When the packages did not arrive on time, we checked the shipping and delivery notification emails. The initial USPS tracking report only showed the zipcode and not the street address. 2 of the 3 packages had the correct zip code, the 3rd did not. At this point we were thinking there had been a slight mix-up in transit, not Fraud.

 

3. We contacted USPS to provide us with the exact addresses to which the phones had been delivered. USPS did provide us with a more detailed Tracking Report. None of the packages were directed to the correct street address. We did not recognize any of the addresses to which our merchandize had been supposedly delivered. 

 

4. As soon as we realized we might have a problem, we tried to contact all 3 sellers at their addresses on file at Ebay. We tried both Gmail and Hotmail several times on different computers, but all enquiries came back as "Undeliverable". At this point we knew we had a real problem on our hands.

 

5. Around this time, Ebay informed us the 30 days had run out on their Purchase Protection Plan and we needed to pursue the matter through Paypal.  So we opened a Dispute with Paypal. We opened a Dispute, a Claim and an Appeal. All of which were denied with a statement that we needed to resolve the issue with the seller. Paypal claims to have STRONG proof of delivery of the items, but we have no idea of what that proof consists of because they promptly closed the Appeals without discussing the matter with us. To this day, we have not been able to contact the sellers.

 

6. Our Paypal account is connected to a bank, so we asked the bank for help and were refused. The bank said they would be bound by Paypal's decision. 

 

7. USPS tells us they are attempting to provide a more formal notice to Paypal.

 

Does anyone know if we have any recourse now that Paypal has denied? We are in the process of obtaining more detailed information from the USPS. We are also filing MAIL FRAUD complaints with USPIS, the Local Police and the FBI. Is there any to reopen with Paypal?

 

 

 
  
 
 
 
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20 REPLIES 20

sharpiemarker
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

If you paid with credit card, file chargeback.  PayPal purchase protection under Items Not Received:

 

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#purchase-protection

 

"Item Not Received claims

 

Your claim will not qualify for a refund under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program for an Item Not Received claim, if:


- You collect the item in person, or arrange for it to be collected on your behalf, including if you use PayPal in a seller’s store location, or
- PayPal has adequate proof from the seller indicating that the item was delivered or order was fulfilled.


If the seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the seller for an Item Not Received claim even if you did not receive the goods."

 

Don't know where folks get the idea that PayPal got your back.  

 

At the same time though, if a seller really did send to correct address, did everything on the up and up and it was stolen at destination, that's one thing.  But blatant abuse like this is not cool.

 

Credit cards, don't buy online without it.  I have PP and I still use CC to buy with.  Never know who is on the other end.  Too many scammers.  Phones, brand name goods are high risk.


Kudos & Solved are greatly appreciated. 🙂
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jupiter1
Contributor
Contributor

"If the seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the seller for an Item Not Received claim even if you did not receive the goods."

 

We have hard evidence from USPS that the SELLER in this case DID NOT deliver the goods to our correct address. 2 of the items were delivered to a random address within the same zipcode as ours. 1 was delivered to an entirely different zipcode and did not even have a complete street address. It appears that the seller may have mailed "something", possibly an empty folder to a random address and stolen our money. 

 

PAYPAL is accepting FRADULENT PROOF OF CORRECT DELIVERY from the seller. If this is PAYPAL's policy, then this is a violation of their Protection Plan because it clearly says you will get your money back if the goods are not delivered to you. PAYPAL, by their NEGLECT of the problem, is complicit in this FRAUD and I can tell you, from what I read on the EBAY blogs, this FRAUD IS RAMPANT WITHIN THE SYSTEM!

 

PAYPAL KNOWS ALL THIS AND WILL NOT DO ANYTHING.

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sharpiemarker
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

Then why did they not accept it, I wonder. Maybe they want to make A decision and move on to the next case or maybe what happened to you is not believable to them still or evidence is still not compelling enough.  And there is no way online for the PayPal general appeals dept to check that shows the actual address the items were delivered to.  Perhaps USPS customer service have to contact PayPal on your behalf with reference to the PayPal case number and provide data that showing it was delivered to different address.

 

There are many times when cases are decided willy nilly for seller and buyer incorrectly.  It's almost like they have a quota, they decide in favor of...take your pick.  There was a case where a seller sold a $28k watch, buyer requested a return, returned empty box.  PayPal ruled for the buyer.  Not the seller.  PayPal not present when items are sold or received, returned, refunded etc.  Shoot, for all we know, they think we are purpetuating a fraud on them. They don't know who to believe lol  

 

Before you present your evidence plan out how you can make it compelling.  Taking it to the higher ups who can override the general appeal dept will make a difference too.  Email executiveoffice at paypal. com about your case so they can review it again.

 

Heck, read the net itself and there is fraud, let alone eBay blog.  I think PayPal 'tries' to do right but there is so much fraud, how can they REALLY stop it and cover everyone in every contingency.  How can they tell who is lying who is not.  Come March 29, the new PayPal policy update kicks in and they are cutting more things from protection coverage.

 


@jupiter1 wrote:

"If the seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the seller for an Item Not Received claim even if you did not receive the goods."

 

We have hard evidence from USPS that the SELLER in this case DID NOT deliver the goods to our correct address. 2 of the items were delivered to a random address within the same zipcode as ours. 1 was delivered to an entirely different zipcode and did not even have a complete street address. It appears that the seller may have mailed "something", possibly an empty folder to a random address and stolen our money. 

 

PAYPAL is accepting FRADULENT PROOF OF CORRECT DELIVERY from the seller. If this is PAYPAL's policy, then this is a violation of their Protection Plan because it clearly says you will get your money back if the goods are not delivered to you. PAYPAL, by their NEGLECT of the problem, is complicit in this FRAUD and I can tell you, from what I read on the EBAY blogs, this FRAUD IS RAMPANT WITHIN THE SYSTEM!

 

PAYPAL KNOWS ALL THIS AND WILL NOT DO ANYTHING.


 


Kudos & Solved are greatly appreciated. 🙂
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Whac-A-Mole
Frequent Advisor
Frequent Advisor

@jupiter1

We know that we made a huge mistake buying from these new sellers with no selling history. We were not paying enough attention. After buying and selling successfully on Ebay for over 5 years and only ever having extremely minor issues, we were lulled into a false sense of security. We thought Ebay and Paypal would have our back. I have to say that, previously, all of the sellers we dealt with were wonderful people. Compounding our problem, it was a stressful time for us. So we are really shocked by this. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if it sounds too good to be true,then it is too good to be true !

Did you buy these phones at a big bargain?

This is nothing new,browse this forum,seller ships empty package to a restaurant, TMobile shop,a hospital in your zipcode which are always open and have employees to sign for packages.

When they find out it was empty inside,they just throw the package away.

When you open a dispute with Paypal,it is a robot which tackles your case and it will look up tracking and close the case siding with the seller since tracking shows it has been delivered.

You need to appeal,if not file, chargeback.

 

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sharpiemarker
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

They did appeal, PayPal shot them down and I suspect they paid with bank account.  But they could appeal again once they get a formal letter from USPS.  OP should file a complaint with ic3.gov to submit to PayPal too.


Kudos & Solved are greatly appreciated. 🙂
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Whac-A-Mole
Frequent Advisor
Frequent Advisor

@sharpiemarker wrote:

They did appeal, PayPal shot them down and I suspect they paid with bank account.  But they could appeal again once they get a formal letter from USPS.  OP should file a complaint with ic3.gov to submit to PayPal too.


paypal has such a huge backlog of disputes and appeals,it looks like appeals are now handled by robots as well!

Too bad she did not pay with credit card and she cant file with Ebay as 30 days dealine has expired .

This type of fraud is not new,crooks research online and find business in her zipcode and ship empty packages there,since business receive many packages during office hours,there will always be someone to receive and sign for the package.

I would not be surprised the seller is no longer registered with Ebay. 

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kkendall
Member
Member

Similar situation - Never got the item and am out in the cold and PP won't resolve this.

I purchased an item off ebay.

I got notified the item was delivered. At the time, I was outside with garage door opened... nothing was delivered.

Opened a case with the PO.

They confirmed the carrier was not in front of my house when they scanned it as 'delivered' (based on the GPS of the carrier at the time).

The PO never attempted to retrieve the item to complete the delivery.

I tried to start a claim with the PO for the item and was informed the item was sent regular mail (not Priority) and there was no insurance purchased. Pretty stupid move for a $170 item. So the PO has no incentive to resolve this.

Checked with Paypal for the 'Buyer Protection' ... I'm **bleep'd**. They won't touch this.

I get it that it's not the sellers fault the item was mis-delivered... and it sure isn't mine either, but I'm the one out $170. But it IS ABSOLUTELY the seller's fault to send it uninsured.

I tried closing my account. PP has the system configured so you can't close your account (from the profile page) - even though there is a link to do so,

There is no such thing as "buyer protection" - it's just a clever phrase designed to give you a false sense of security

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Whac-A-Mole
Frequent Advisor
Frequent Advisor

so the package was scanned delivered but delivered to someone else !

not seller fault,and even if he has used priority mail,I wonder if USPS will approve the claim since it is delivered!

and if he insured it with third party insurer,they would ask for tracking and if it said delivered,it would not pay the claim.

Is this an Ebay transaction,if within 30 days,call Ebay and see if you qualify for Ebay money back guarantee,sometimes they will reimburse you,if you can show USPS GPS result

 

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sharpiemarker
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

@kkendall

 

How did you fund your payment?  If you funded payment with credit card, file a dispute through them.


Kudos & Solved are greatly appreciated. 🙂
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