Buyer Fraud-- She is a theif

[TLC97]

I sold a horse blanket to M.C. in the beginning of May on a FB group (since found out it is one of the few is has not been banned from yet).  She had me ship it to an address that I later found out is not the same as her paypal address.  Three weeks later she filed the dispute with PayPal. Our conversations were fine and I had the tracking number to prove it was delivered.  I as the seller had the claim escalted after talking to a paypal customer service rep. and her clearly stating that I had done my part and should get the money.  They ruled in buyer's favor.  I called on Sunday and spoke with another customer service person.  He said he could not understand why the ruling had gone the way it did.  That it appeared all my evidence I sent (screen shots of the conversations) had not been reviewed and I had provided a tracking number.  So he reopened the claim.  I got a notification today that said:

To be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection, we require that all sellers provide us with proof of delivery via online tracking. Unfortunately, we can't grant your claim appeal because we were unable to verify delivery. Specifically, the tracking was not delivered to the address in the transaction details page.
 You may review the conditions of PayPal Seller Protection by clicking "Legal" at the bottom of any PayPal page and then clicking "PayPal User Agreement."
 Sincerely,

Protection Services

You can see in the information I sent where they Buyer SPECIFICALLY ASKS for it to be sent to the address I mailed it to.  Can someone explain to me how this happens?  M.C. has been BANNED from MULTIPLE pages and I have since found out was found in violation of two pages for this behavior.  SO Paypal must be able to see she has filed claims like this before?

[DPCreations]

When you sell an item you have the responsibility to follow the rules and ship according to PayPal policies.  It is your responsiblity to read the details page of the transaction where it gives very specific instructions, one of which is that you must ship to the buyer's PayPal address in order to have seller protection.  You did not do that so you lose the dispute.  Messages from buyer to ship to a different address don't matter; PayPal's policy does matter. 

Next time check the transaction details page before you ship.  It would also be advisable to read and understand all of PayPal's policies, especially those relating to buyer and seller protecton.

In your case, the buyer apparently understood the PayPal policies better than you did and know how to take advantage of your inexperience.  PayPal can't protect you from bad seller judgment.

[TLC97]

Thank you for explaining it.  I would be nice if PayPal can see that she has had multiple disputes and this is a pattern for her.

She is not stupid and I am to old fashioned and trusting.  Why I will no longer use PayPal.

[DPCreations]

PayPal is fine and a very good tool for money transfers.  You just need to understand PayPal policies.  You would learn a lot by following the forums for a month to see all the issues because users don't understand the policies.

[Whac-A-Mole]

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@TLC97 wrote:

Thank you for explaining it.  I would be nice if PayPal can see that she has had multiple disputes and this is a pattern for her.

She is not stupid and I am to old fashioned and trusting.  Why I will no longer use PayPal.

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most cases are first reviewed by robots which will take your tracking number to the USPS website and verify if it has been delivered to that address,and yours did not.

Paypal offers an appeal option,but in your case there is no appeal,you fail to ship t o the address in the payment notice.

Paypal does not extend seller protection if buyer and seller decide to do otherwise,

As for this seller if she continues to behave the way she behaved,Paypal will shut her down and cease to do business with her,.

[Whac-A-Mole]

In the future,if the buyer asks you to ship to a different address,the proper way to handle this is to return her payment and ask her to add this second address to her Paypal account,we can have multiple shipping address,ask her to send payment again,this time using the new shipping address.

then you are covered by Paypal seller protection.

also for expensive or fragile items,insurance is a good idea,USPS offers insurance,so do private insurers liek ship insurance and U-PIC. 

[Niner123]

I sold a sports item to another individual. This was an item given out by a team that had a button that made the item "make comments" The item worked fine when I sent it and was not damaged upon arrival to the buyer. The buyer got the item autographed by a professional player and THEN contacted me AFTERWARDS and said that this item was defective and they should get a refund. I agreed to a refund IF the item was shipped back to me. The Buyer REFUSES to send it back to me because it is autographed and they want to keep it. Now they are going to open a claim. I have all documentation of the item being received including USPS receipt and tracking #'s, as well as the confirmation in messages FROM the BUYER stating they got it. What should I do ? Will PAYPAL rule in favor of them?

[TLC97]

All I can say is good luck.  When I would talk with somone on the phone they would tell me one thing, but in writing from PP I always got the opposite. 

[gsh808]

Yeah on the phone they always sympathize with you and tell you that you have a good case and should win and then when it's judgement time, they side with the shady buyer. I got **bleep** out of $650 and I am quitting paypal unless they fix this. I can't lose this much over and over. They must think everyone can lose a lot of money and be ok with it.

[DPCreations]

PayPal does not seller protection for not as described.  It is just one of those risks you accept by selling online.

@Niner123

PayPal will abide by PayPal policies in such cases.  Buyer provides evidence; seller provides documentation.  PayPal was not present at any stage to inspect the item so PayPal reviews the case and makes a determination.  If buyer wins the buyer MUST return the item for a refund.  Smart buyers will not do so.  They are angry that seller business would not negotiate a deal so these savvy buyers will file a claim with credit card bank; credit card will agree with buyer and force a refund without return.  Seller loses item, has no money, and gets a $20 chargeback fee.

That just the way it works.

This why it is so important for sellers to understand the implications of NOT negotiating a deal.  A negotiated deal will generally be better than a chargeback.

I suspect a phone call to the buyer with an offer of 50% refund would have been accepted by the buyer.  Too bad you didn't phone the buyer and resolve the issue.