Buyer: Opened Dispute

[Duc]

I am a buyer whom opened a dispute for an item received as defective. I've contacted the seller and told them about the item received. They told me that I'll need to send it back to them on my expensive (international freight charge), before they will issue a refund.

I was furious why I have to pay for the freight charge. After several emails, it is apparent they are not going to pay for the return freight. So, I ended up paying for the freight and requested a full refund rather than an exchange. They are of no help and their customer service is not their top priority. I have to call them repeatedly and ask for the status of the return item. I have enough with this cat and mouse game and decided to open a dispute.

A day later, I am contacted with the seller and was told again that they will issue a refund and ask to close the dispute since Paypal has freeze the dispute transaction. They have not responded to the dispute via Paypal. The only communications is directly to me saying they will issue the refund when I close the dispute. What should I do?

[lancelotme]

---

@DPCreations wrote:

@Duc

All one can say is what SHOULD happen if they seller fails to respond.  You should win.  We don't know all the details.

As to why the seller wants you to close the dispute:  So the seller doesn't have to pay.  Once the displute si closed the seller has no further obligation nor expectation to do anying. If you close the dspute, the seller wins; that's the reason the seller wants you to close it.

---

IS this seller from China?

On some major Chinese venue ,if the buyer opens a dispute and seller cannot get it resolved in x number of days,the venue would punish them ,by closing his account,thats why they will ask you to close the dispute and they send you a replacement.

As replacement from China to USA take a long time.

So a Chinese seller who also sells on major Chinese website  may think it works the same way in US,I have a case like that,they asked me to close the dispute and then they send me a replacement.

But on Chinese website ,you can re-open a dispute if you are not happy with the outcom while on PAYPAL,you cannot.  

[lancelotme]

The product is not $750 and I do have a copy receipt with tracking number. However, the online tracking is incomplete and it only shows that it arrived in their respective country. The only evidence in my defensive that they have received it is via skype communication saying they did received it and photos they have taken of the product blaming me of a blemish that was already there.

-------------------------

Did you use your credit card to pay?

Then either escalate to get Paypal involved,if he does not respond,case will closed and you keep phone and money.

If he responds and ask for the item back,then you will lose as you have no tracking.

Then go to your cc issuer and file a case,cc issuer does not ask for tracking. 

[Duc]

This is turning out to be not a cut & dry case. I figure I had all evidence on hand including external messages, but it seems it's irrelevant & unacceptable to PayPal. @lancelotme As far as paying via a cc, I'm not sure. I've used my PayPal account to pay for this item, but the funds were taken from my debit card & not from my PayPal bal. So the answer is, yes? The seller is from China & the website I made the transaction was from their own. It's not a third party venue to my knowledge. Perhaps I should have waited a little longer before I opened the dispute & a refund would have been issue. They had 2 days after they told me they received it & working on it now. Whatever that means they were not working on it. I don't think they will respond & wants to have a clean image with PayPal, hence the request to close the dispute. I have until mid July to move to a claim.

[DPCreations]

If you ever want a refund, DO NOT CLOSE the dispute.  The seller is doing this so you get nothing and the seller wins.

Seller stating "working on it" is generally a delay tactic.   It seems obvious the seller does not want to refund.  That was obvious with your first post.

There were too many details missing initially and still not clear.

You should know how you paid; you should have a PayPal record.  You should know whether your paid with PayPal or used a debit card.

[lancelotme]

But her problem is that she has already returned the item with no tracking,so if she esclated to get Paypal involved and won the case,Paypal will ask her to return the item and upload tracking.

Her payment would not be released until tracking shows delivered.

She has no tracking to upload.or is it just tracking to that country?not to the seller. 

BTW,how did you return the item,you said by freight,who is the carrier? 

[lancelotme]

Credit card carrier does not care much for tracking,they will just read both sides of the story and decide,

[lancelotme]

I think I understand what the seller is saying-close the dispute as the payment is frozen and he cannot do a refund from his paypal account .

This is a large amount,he probably does not have idle fund lying around in his Paypal account to issue refund,he needs that money to be released. 

(the echange rate is 6 Chinese dollars to one US dollar,for him to cough up US $500 plus will mean he has to find Chinese $3000 somewhere)

If you trust him,then close the case so money will be returned to his account and he can refund . 

You are not in a good situation either,if you ask Paypal involved,it will ask you for tracking which you dont have ,if you do not ask Paypal to get involved,it will close after so many days like you said mid July and you get nothing.

I would close the case and let the seller issue you a refund ,if he does not,then go the credit card route.

My guts feeling is that you will get your refund once you close the case.

I has happened to me 2 times with 2 different sellers on a Chinese venue.and they both shipped a replacement which I prefer.

but in both cases,they are low price items,under 15 dollars. 

[kernowlass]

@Duc

Sorry but i would definately not close the case, we have had more than i can remember threads on here from buyers closing cases from Chinese sellers and then not getting the promised refund.

As for the funds being held that is no good reason as all the seller has to do is contact paypal and ask them to release the held funds back to the buyer and that closes the case.

You need to escalate it before your 20 days runs out, because its China paypal often accept tracking into the sellers country, and they often do not expect it to show as delivered unlike when a seller sends an item to a buyer.

Personally i would take the risk and escalate AND then contact customer services to say that tracking has shown it is on its way in China but the seller is asking you to close the dispute beforehand.

They may then release your refund for you.

[Duc]

@lancelotme
I have a receipt and tracking number and the online tracking only goes up to China and says 'Arrival at inward office of exchange' The carrier is Japan Post. Yes, the tracking goes as far as to the Country and not to the seller.

You may be correct and the seller will refund after I close, but they had several days to processed the refund and they did not before I opened the dispute. I am leaning towards that they are up to no good. On the other hand, from what you guys are saying about what solid evidence I have. I have none to backup that I have returned the item with an incomplete tracking. If Paypal isn't going to refund, then I would have a better chance of closing the dispute and hope the seller will refund.

@kernowlass
Is the seller telling the truth and they can't refund because the payment is frozen? What is the reason why the seller aren't responding to the dispute? Would Paypal favor me if the seller never responded for the duration of the dispute process up until I last day before it expire and I escalate it to a claim?

[kernowlass]

@Duc

Yes of course they can, i went through the new seller hold myself and needed to refund a buyer. My funds were held / frozen so i just contacted customer services and they released the held funds back to the buyer.

If they are experienced sellers then they are well aware of that but they are probably asking you to close it first as they know they can scam you and not have to refund you once you have closed the dispute.

I can give you no more advice than i did in my previous post and the rest is up to you.