Paypal ignoring uploaded evidence on a claim.

toggie
Contributor
Contributor

Here is my situation,

 

I purchased a computer on ebay from a seller who apperaed to have a good reputation, they marked it as shipped very quickly and provided a USPS tracking number, 2 days later the tracking shows the pakage as delivered, but it was not, no doorbell, no tag left on the door, nothing.  I notice that the package was marked as delivered to the "Mail Room" and signed for by "V rizon" which was my first clue something was really wrong. 

 

I then called my post office to see if there has been a mistake, but they say the package was delivered and signed for, I then ask them to confirm the address it was delivered to and they list off an address I have never heard before.  I google the address while on the phone with the USPS and it turnes out it is a nearby verizon store (that explains who signed for the package).  

 

Thinking the post office must have **bleep** up royally I call the verizon store to see if they have my package, an employee said "not that they knew of" but then said "I'll go check the box outside"  after a few minutes they acknowledge having recieved a package but they said it was had a stamp on it from the post office that said "received without contents" and that it was in a bag (I don't exactly know what they meant by that).  At this point I go on ebay to start the process of getting a refund and thing to myself, if this is a scam, it is a ridiculous attempt, because I know sellers are required to ship to buyer's verified addresses, so shipping an empty package to the wrong address soundes like a really terrible way to try to scam someone.  

 

Two days later I recieve a notice from paypal that they have found in favor of the seller! Surprised by this I call paypal to ask what is going on and to explain that the seller didn't ship to my address, the rep tells me that they can only see the delivery zip code so I need to prove that they shipped to the wrong address, so now I have to wait till the post office is open the next day.

 

The next day a helpful post office employee gives me a printed copy of their internal tracking system verifying the delivery address to be the verizon store and gives me his phone number.  At this point I also find out I can request the delivery confirmation from the tracking page on the USPS site, and sure enough, I get an image showing the verizon store's address hand written and a signature that is not mine.  Armed with this evidence, I call paypal back and talk to a very helpful rep, she listens to what happened, looks at the evidence and says "well it is clear it was not delivered to you, so I am going to escalate this and work the case myself and see if I can get you a refund right now" she works for a few minutes, but no luck, strangely in the reslution center while she is doing this I see the dispute escalated but it appears it was escalated by the seller, but that dissappears after a few minutes and the page goes back to looking like it did before, but no funds are returned to my account.  The rep then says she thinks it didn't work for some reason but says she will repopen it and let it go through the normal process, and that I should have a resolution within about a day, I say OK and thank her.  The claim goes back to looking in paypal like it was escalated by the seller (which I still find weird).

 

The next day I get yet another email saying my claim has been denied! Now I am starting to get livid because I have already provided two pieces of physical exicence showing that the package was not shipped to me and had a paypal rep verbally say they would settle this in my favor.  I call paypal yet again and this rep (who is also very courteous) tells me she has two options, I can do a chargeback to circumvent them and get the money back from my card (forefiting the portion of the sale that came from my paypal balance) or she could escalate it again to another department, I asked if I could still do the chargeback later (if they somehow still find in favor of the seller) because I certainly didn't want to forefit my paypal balance, she said yes, so I said to do the paypal escalation, which she said could take up to three days.

 

That brings me to today, I called back the verizon store hoping there was still a chance they had the empty package which I could use as further evidence (I am kicking myself for not driving over there the second I thought something fishy was going on) but they said it went out with the trash already.  At this point I am preparing to have to do a chargeback but then what happens to my paypal balance?

 

I am also opening a case with the USPS customer relations office in Milwaukee so I can send paypal that reference number in the hope they will contact the USPS directly to confirm the address the package was shipped to before they finish this final piece of the claim escalation process, but I have basically no confidence in paypal at this point because they have already ignored the evidence I have provided and it seems like they have no interest in reaching out to the post office phone number I already provided.

 

Is there anything else I can do at this point?  Get a police report? Small claims court against paypal? File a seperate dispute through eBay?  Keep calling paypal? Go to social media? I feel like I am going crazy, I guess This is a bit premature because the claim is still open and paypal is still talking to me, but I am really nervous at this point, the paypal balance part of the transaction was not at all insignificant.

 

 

 

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22 REPLIES 22

sharpiemarker
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

File complaints with ic3.gov, the US Postal Inspector, and BBB.org

 

BBB.org will pass the complaint on to PayPal office of executive escalations where they will investigate.  Did you upload evidence on to the case?  If you haven't, call PayPal to allow you to upload your evidence to the case so you don't have to keep explain it again and again when you speak with them.  And you have to be nice but firm and persistent with PayPal.  Or check this page out:

http://scampal.weebly.com/submit-a-complaint.html

 

 

What happened with your case makes me now wonder if that was happened with my partner's package a couple years ago.  Tracking said it was delivered but nothing.  I figure it was stolen from the front door as it's right next to the sidewalk, no front yard but never thought that it may be the seller scamming.


Kudos & Solved are greatly appreciated. 🙂
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toggie
Contributor
Contributor

I have attached the signature confirmation showing the wrong address and an unknown signature and a screenshot of the USPS's internal tracking showing the wrong address as the 'recipient', which is why I am so flummoxed.  

 

Hadn't thought of the BBB, that will for sure be my next step the current escalation is ignored.  It is so frustrting that I keep having perfectly pleasent conversations with reps at paypal on the phone who assure me everything I have submitted looks good, only to have them pass it off to some unknown black box that just ignores the attached evidence without any requests for clarification or explanation.

 

 

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sharpiemarker
Esteemed Advisor
Esteemed Advisor

Yeh, don't know what the appeals dept is smokin'.  I guess they have some of the tasks automated as well or the system times out or it is simply a weird clunky system.  Or maybe those reps have no real power to just find in your favor and have to leave it to the higher ups in the appeals dept.  Hope it works out, lotsa luck to you. Smiley Happy


Kudos & Solved are greatly appreciated. 🙂
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aceyjducey
New Community Member

Hi,  Just reading your post and wow, what a nightmare.  Yah, going to the Verizon store should have been a no brainer but you can't undo that.  What came to my mind is the label that USPS should be able to produce from their system and provide you a copy of that, maybe in a PDF form.  So the biggest thing on the label that may help your case is the weight .  You said you bought a computer and likely that came with a charging cord too.  You should search the weight of the computer and cord and compare that to what the ebay guy shipped you.  If the weight on the label comes up dramatically short, I think that would add to your prood that you were shipped an empty box.  Let me also add that the Verizon staff are a bunch of idiots for throwing out that package. 

Good Luck on your recovery.

 

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Whac-A-Mole
Frequent Advisor
Frequent Advisor

why do you file with  Paypal when you can file with Ebay?

Call Ebay now and ask what is the best way to file a dispute.

If you file item not received,Ebay robot will check tracking and rule in seller favor,then you have to appeal.

so call Ebay now and ask what is the best way to approach this,you should be protected under buyer protection.

Ebay also can view seller file if he is a serial offender sending out empty envelope.

USPS post office when they receive package wich has arrived open,ripped apart,content missing,badly mangles etc,will stamp it as arrived damaged or missing content and if possible,place it in an envelope.

  

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Whac-A-Mole
Frequent Advisor
Frequent Advisor

@aceyjducey

Verizon employees do not collect garbage,it makes no sense to them,of course they are going to throw it out. 

there is another way to find the weight on the shipping label ,when you file item not as described,seller/ebay will send you a return lable,that label is just like the original lable seller used,except the addresses of ship to and return are now reversed,seller is now the recipient and buyer is now the ship from but everything else stays the same,weight,class of shipping,but with a new tracking number.

 

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toggie
Contributor
Contributor

I just got off the phone with the local USPS office of consumer affairs, they have opend a case in my name that I have now forwarded to paypal as an additional piede of evidence along with the name of the rep I opend the case with.

 

The USPS rep told me that the original shipping weight was 1lb 1oz, I also mentioned that in the message to paypal.

 

If paypal does not find in my favor after this I will try to open a dispute through ebay, but I seem to recall reading that I can't do that once a dispute has been filed with paypal.  

 

We'll see what happens, I am a little worried paypal is just going to deny again, they have given me no indication they pay any attention to the evidence I have submitted.  

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toggie
Contributor
Contributor

Well this is somewhat interesting, since my last attachment referencing the USPS claim number and original shipping weight, an unknown-to-me paypal employee has converted the case to "Not As Described" and it now says it is awaiting the seller's response.

 

 

 

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toggie
Contributor
Contributor

And now the case advanced straight to "Being reviewed by PayPal," right past the part where paypal asks me for more information.....

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