Unauthorized transaction dispute.

[temp-ap112]

I had my identity, wallet, cell phone, paypal and paypal business mastercard taken from me against my will. The attackers, there were three, used threatening and forceful language in an attempt to get me to hand over anything of value. I did so, afraid I'd be physically attacked or harmed if I did not coooperate. When they had my cell phone, they requested the passcode for it, and then after thumbing through my wallet, they wanted my debit card pin numbers. Rather than find myself getting full of stab wounds, I gave into their requests.

Paypal states I don't have a case for the fraudulent transactions that occured after I lost posession of my Paypal debit mastercard and paypal account because I willingly handed over everything, or did so under duress. This means to paypal that I authorized someone other than me to use my Paypal accounts. In order to have a valid case, I would have had to fight and argue with the attackers, resisted their threats and requests, and after I lay dead or nearly dead on the ground, then I would have a case, because at that point, I would not have willingly given my items to the attackers, they would have physically taken it from me.

Here is the response I received from PP.

--

The main reason we can not honor these claims is because under MasterCard's guidelines we do not have a valid dispute right when the cardholder provides the card and pin information to anyone under duress. At anytime that the cardholder gives this information out they are authorizing that person to use the card and are accepting any and all charges.

--

Do I have any recourse?

[kernowlass]

@temp-ap112

Good grief thats awful, glad you are ok though and you did the right thing.

Did you speak to paypal over the phone? If not may be an idea to do so.

If you did then try and put everything in a message and send it to >>>

 https://www.facebook.com/PayPal and @AskPayPal for Twitter.

[DPCreations]

Glad you'r OK.

Did you contact Master Card and your bank as soon as possible after the attack to report the loss?  Did you report it to the police?

I think those 2 facts would support your case.

It seems that the case is really with MasterCard rather than PayPal, so MasterCard should be contacted to dispute the use of the card.

[temp-ap112]

It was a Paypal mastercard, isused by Bancorp, so I contacted Paypal and filed the dispute. I talked to the police where it happened, and because I mentioned Paypal, they told me to open an I3C case on the internet. So, I did that, gave Paypal the case number.

I did contact Paypal by phone, email, and fax.

I find it ridiculous and unbelievable that because I was threatened to the point of assault to hand over my pin codes, that that invalides any means for a dispute and gives whomever took the Paypal mastercard, authorization to use my account. How is that possible.

I also provided valid proof, solid evidence that I was not at the places where my card was used. Because I had no cash, card, wallet, or cell phone, I had to check into an emergency crisis center (been a bummer year; am fighting to regain control of my house so I was couch surfing) until I could get back on my feet. There were also items ordered through an online retailer, delivered to an apartment, and signed by someone other than me. That person then moved out of the apartment shortly after, according to the manager. I was able to get the address, items, and UPS tracking numbers, which I sent to paypal, along with verification of where I was staying at the time (the crisis center). I repeatedly told Paypal I did not authorize anyone to use my card, but once again, having handed over the PIN number authorizes someone other than you to use your card.

[DPCreations]

I would have thought the Bancorp or MasterCard would have been the appropriate MasterCard call point, not PayPal.  There should be a toll free number emergency number on the card, although that doesn't help for a stolen card.  I'm just guessing which financial institution would give the best protection in this case:  MasterCard, BankCorp, or PayPal

This also may show that a PayPal Master Card does not provide the same fraud protection as a bank-issued credit card.

I only ever use regular bank-issued credit cards.

[temp-ap112]

Paypal states they offer a Zero fraud liability to their consumers. However, they don't enforce their own rules.

I also found this. Perhaps paypal ought to update their policies, because I should be covered (this is from 2014).

MasterCard’s Zero Fraud Liability Will Now Include PIN Transactions

In great news for consumers, MasterCard has wisely decided to cover transactions made with a personal identification number (PIN) under their zero fraud liability protection. This means that both ATM and chip & PIN transactions will now be covered.

This is a logical step forward for MasterCard given that more and more card issuers are giving consumers access to cards that are chip & PIN enabled. Previously their zero fraud liability insurance didn’t cover transactions where a PIN was used. This change in policy will not take place until October.

[mickleham_walt]

Glad to hear you are ok.

Let me see if I have this straight: If your life is threatened and you give your info willingly, Paypal is not liable, however,  if you die during a robbery, you cannot make a claim, so Paypal is covered again.

Whatever happens, you did the right thing. A couple of years ago I went through something similar, refused to comply, and was hit with a crowbar for my trouble.

I wonder how badly a story like yours damages Paypal's reputation and bottom line. I would immagine way more than just doing the right thing. And, I don't care to hear about.. 'Well, it's the card issuer's policy..' garbage. Given Paypal's size, I don't think it would be too much trouble to take one on the chin, and cover their customer in a situation like this.

I have to believe that they will eventually do the right thing for you.

PS Edited to tone it down a bit.

[temp-ap112]

Banks themselves seem to always be more than happy and very willing to reverse any unauthorized charges. I've never had my card+pin stolen before, but I've had my wallet stolen or removed without my knowledge, and whomever had it went on a Walmart spending spree across two states. I remember the bank asked me, now you've probably shopped at Walmart before, everyone has, but they also claimed that's where a lot of thieves go. My encounter with the people who took my phone+card+pin ironically happened at a Walmart parking lot.

This was a little bit more hightech, however, and having a work past in Information Technology, I probably should have been more secure with my phone and identity.  I had paypal, gmail on my phone, and you could access it without a password (I can't remember if it was the app or the web browser on my phone, but it never asked for my Paypal password after I initially signed in). My gmail email was also cached, and the person(s) were able to access that and send a password reset to hijack my prepaid phone account with Straight talk. So, they got a free month of service out of me too, and Straight-Talk wouldn't even talk to me, because my security questions, phone number, and email address had been changed. Good grief. After I was able to change my gmail password, the thieves proceeded to try a password recovery which went to my secondary email. They wouldn't give up, two weeks after the incident occurred. 

Paypal is set to compete with Mastercard and Visa, they do over 30 billion in reveune each year. They probably have assets that make them more valuable then most small banks, yet they do as they please.

In my case, they don't lose any money over this, it is Mastercard who will end up taking one on the chin (which is probably a write off anyway). Paypal just refuses to accept my dispute.

[mickleham_walt]

Did you get a chance to try out kernowlass' suggestion? Also, kind of a long shot, ask Gmail if they have records of the ip from where your password was changed? I guess it can be faked, but I wouldn't guess so from parking lot robbers.

How about the phone, can't the cell phone company get the last location it was used from? Maybe if you put all these bits of info together, and give them to the police, they might be able to do something, or pass the info on to someone that can.

Meanwhile keep bugging Paypal from as many angles as you can.

[temp-ap112]

I keep providing more information, but it only seems to **bleep** paypal off. Now, they've taken the approach to ignore me and permanently closed the case, without the possiblity to ever revisit it.

My name is Cassie, and I want to thank you for providing additional information to appeal our decision for the transactions that were previously disputed.

We are aware of MasterCard's Zero liability policy for unauthorized activity. However, as long as we can justify that no unauthorized activity took place the policy quoted does not apply.  

This is an unfortunate situation but I encourage you to take this outside of PayPal to resolve and get the authorities involved.

This is our final review of the cases, our investigation is permanently closed. We will not revisit these claims again.